Replies to '12/26 "Brainwashed by My Parents"'

 
User Mood
Stressed

Message Emote
frustrated
September 27, 2008, 3:02 pm PDT

It's "all about the kids"

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

I just settled a long drawn out painful custody battle with my ex. I am so not happy with the results but I felt it was the best thing I could do for my children even though the decision goes against my grain. I divorced a controling abusive, selfish man. To make a long story short - I am not allowed to move from the county the kids were born in even though I would like to move within the same state. I have a job and a house waiting for me out of town but am living on welfare in poverty here where the kids are court ordered to stay. This was all because my ex didn't want me to go and happened to say all the right things to the custody evaluator. I completely got shafted and was told by my attorney and his assistant that I just have to wait for my ex to screw up. Well, his alchohol abuse and the fact that he took my kids and kept them from me for 11 days so I couldn't move as we had verbally agreed don' t mean anything to the court system. He hasn't gotten so much as a slap on the wrist. I have to sit back and watch my kids get messed up and wait for them to be old enough to realize what is going on.

I agree with what Karen says - what if the kid honestly doesn't like the other parent? I haven't said anything to my youngest and he cries everytime he has to go to his dad's house. He had 2 episodes at daycare regarding not wanting to go and the custody evaluator took the word of his father (who wasn't there!) that it didn't happen. She never asked the daycare provider - nothing. Instead I get accused of alienating and am being dictated how to raise my kids.

Why do so many people think that because they are kids - they are stupid. Even their own father won't give them credit for being intelligent enough to see what is going on. I haven't had to say anything to the kids but no one will listen to them directly either.

 

Bitter in Minnesota

 

Message Emote
blank
September 29, 2008, 1:29 pm PDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

i agree. my father cheated on my mom ended up having a son, ended up marrying the psycho and getting divorced just a year after that second marriage. The only time he'll call me or my twin sister is when he wants us to either babysit my 1/2 brother or to come over for a family dinner with the rest of his family to make it look like he's got the picture perfect family. My mom never bad mouthed him or alienated us from him. I know now it's my choice if i want to see him or not, but as a kid i didn't have that choice I had to live with him every so many weeks or whatever the deal at the time was.

 

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
October 3, 2008, 12:47 pm PDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

 I agree with you Karen...  When kids get to be a certain age they easily identify our character flaws and flaunt them against us so long as it suits them.  Especially in the teenage years.  How many times can one parent defend the misbehavior of another without losing total credibility with the child?  Even the small things - my son wants to go to his schools football game, he doesn't drive, I take him and pick him up because I really prefer him not to get into a car with a teen driver.  His Dad won't take him or pick him up when it's his weekend so I end up doing it.  His dad doesn't pay child support, or support him in any other manner either,  His son knows this without me saying a word,  So my son and I have a better relationship than him and his dad.  His dad is now making ridiculous accusations in court that I have alienated him from his son and brainwashed him against him.  Of course, he's not filed  any "formal motions" just throwing these accusations out in the midst of court for establishing an order of child support. 

Yes, it is all about responsibility and ownership. 
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
October 3, 2008, 2:36 pm PDT

Shame on you!

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

As a parent you had an opportunity to rise above and teach your children the unconditional love for their Father just as you would want him to teach them that for you!  Being human is not an excuse for misspeaking in front of your children.  
 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
October 3, 2008, 8:45 pm PDT

Lost Custody to Unfaithful Exhusband

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

I lost custody of my son 1986 when my son was 10 years old because my exhusband told my son that if he told the judge behind closed chambers that I  had a gun to his head he would be granted custody.

Well he won.

My son admitted to the lie many years later in a letter to me.

Since then he has been brainwashed by his father and my son has been on drugs with his father since he was 13 years old. Both of them are in and out of jail constantly.

He never finished High School and is 34 years old and homeless now.

All because my ex husband could not stand it that I wanted to live a straight life and could have given my child alot more then him. His father never wanted to work. He was a scam man. A fraud!

It was more fun living with his Dad.

I wanted structure for my son.

This is what kind of selfish man he is.

So this woman you had on your show is insane and does not know what pain in your heart is for the last 23 years.

What kind of law do we have??? 

What kind of judges do we have???

My son has not contacted me in 7 years.

Sad in California

 

 
User Mood
Happy

Message Emote
blank
October 6, 2008, 10:30 am PDT

10/03 "Brainwashed by My Parents"

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

Karen, you're correct; there has to be some ownership on both sides.  Every case is different, and not all cases prove to be Parental Alienation.  But it does exist and should not be ignored.  It's not a black and white issue and yes, some fathers may use it as a cop-out to their own shortcomings, but in many cases the fathers are backed in a corner with no one to help. 

 

R.

 

Message Emote
blank
October 7, 2008, 8:34 am PDT

Thank you!!

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

I was reading the other posts about this and thought I was in the twighlight zone.  Unfortunately the lawyer that was on the show was not very eloquent in her arguments and Dr. Phil bulldozed over her.  I think the semantics are very important and it is important to resist calling this a "syndrome".  There are sets of BEHAVIORS to explore on both sides of this issue and it is just as likely that the parent making the accusation of parental alienation is the one being retaliatory.  Calling it a syndrome will  dilute the issue and allow people and the courts to slap a label on an issue with a lot of gray area.  Remember years ago when ADHD awareness was raised and nearly every kid with a behavior problem or an excitable nature was diagnosed and put on Meds?  I think you risk the same type of scenario if you don't look at subtle, individual characteristics in each situation.  Now I am a therapist and believe in the importance of correct diagnosis but I think it is important not to rally on the latest bandwagon. 

The people on this post have an absolutely valid argument that there are sometimes real and tangible reasons for a child to choose loyalty to one parent over the other and it is even HEALTHY to do so.   I also think that we do a disservice to our children to gloss over the very destructive and yes abusive behaviors of some parents (on both sides of this issue and with attention to age appropriate discussions with the child).  Who would have this conversation with their child: "Mom/dad-I don't want to visit dad /mom.  He/she always puts me down and ignores my feelings."  "No honey, dad/mom really loves you and visiting him/her is what you should do."?  Talk about codependency and invalidating a child's sense of self worth!

 
User Mood
Depressed

Message Emote
blank
December 20, 2008, 1:07 pm PST

brainwashed

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

karen: i an going through the same thing as you.

i have been married for 40 years. the best thing i did was go for counseling to get my feelings straight.

my children are all adults in their late 30's. they have minds of their own.

 

stop beating yourself up is the best advice

 
User Mood
Good

Message Emote
blank
December 25, 2008, 5:50 pm PST

you protest too much

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

 

       "Some of these people (non-custodial parents) have to take ownership for their own behavior and accept the fact that they just might be at fault."   That's a nicely vague phrase.  It is the kind of thing someone says because they do not have the nerve to say what they mean.  If they said "I am the most important element in the universe.   The kids have a mission in their lives to make me happy.  They have to tell me daily what a jerk their father is, was, and always shall be."        

 

  

 
User Mood
Touched

Message Emote
hopeful
December 27, 2008, 8:05 am PST

Walk in the shoes....

Quote From: tigger2908

I have been separated for 7 years, having been married for 23.  For the last 8 years of our marriage, my ex-husband suffered from Clinical Depression.  As far as I know, he still does.  We have no direct contact.

 

During the early part of our separation, my ex accused me of alienating our two sons from him.  The accusation came to me through my lawyer.  While he has stopped accusing me (at least I haven't heard anything more) it was extremely hurtful at the time and I still remember the feeling it caused. 

 

I consider myself a good Mom and I think my sons agree.  I'd be lying if I said that I have never said a bad word about my ex to them.  After all, I'm human.  However, it is his behaviour that has alienated our older son, not anything I said.  Without going into it all, my ex is guilty of physical abuse (just once, that's all it took), emotional abuse (saying that our sons would be better off in foster care than with me - if I'm so bad, why didn't he take them?) and financial abuse (he refuses to pay child support),  For the first couple of years, I insisted that both sons see their father.  Eventually, our older son got to the age where he could make his own choice.  He chose to cut off all contact.  Our younger son still has a relationship with his father, which I do not discourage in any way.

 

My point is that just because a child cuts off contact with the non-custodial parent, it's not always the fault of the costodial parent.  Some of these people have to take ownership for their own behaviour and accept the fact that they just might be at fault.

 

Karen

My children were Brainwashed by their father, his money and friends.  It is painful to be abused by the court system, but more painful to watch your children be abused by it.

 

Children should not be treated as adults.  Unless abuse or neglect is apparent, a child should have a relationship with both parents.  In the end, they will figure out the manupulation that occured to them, and they will hold the correct ones accountable.

 

Thank you Dr. Phil and Company for continuing to bring Limelight to this hannis behavior.

 


Return to the Message Board


First Page | Previous Page | 1 | Next | Last