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Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

Number of Replies: 2996
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Created on : Friday, February 17, 2006, 03:07:28 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

Dr. Phil revisits the topic of what makes a good wife. Grant and Kelly first appeared on the show because Grant expected his wife to live up to his demanding standards. He wanted a cleaner house, better meals and a sexier spouse. After seven years, his constant criticism and disappointment had her ready to throw in the towel on trying to become the "perfect wife." Dr. Phil’s first talk with Grant and Kelly caused quite a stir as thousands of viewers wrote in choosing sides. How are Grant and Kelly now? Has Grant abandoned his critical ways and his expectation of having a Stepford wife? And why is he no longer wearing his wedding ring? Talk about the show here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

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February 18, 2006, 9:22 am CST

Grant and Kelly

First of all, I have to say I attended this particular show as a live audience member.  And I watched the original Grant and Kelly episode months earlier.   

  

It brought back thoughts to my corporate experience, the term "operational definition".  If, as Dr. Phil says, everything is negotiated (including relationships), then operational definition can be a useful tool in almost any setting.  It is repeatable, understandable, has a "yes" or "no" answer and, in most cases, can be agreed upon by both parties.  If the terms are specific.   

  

As an engineer, Grant should understand that there are two types of data.  Variable and attribute.  Variable is when you have a light dimmer or sound control on the t.v.   It is variably controlled gradually.  Attribute data is binary --  yes or no, on or off.  Did you do something or not?  In a marriage, you definitely need some "bumper room".   Does loading the dishwasher correctly mean all plates are facing in the same direction with all like-sized plates in graduating order?  Does the furniture placed correctly mean perpendicular placement of a sofa x-inches from the wall.   Exactly what does it mean to fold clothes correctly? 

  

I can SO sympathize with Kelly's struggle.  After working for years in the corporate world and being told "well, that could have gone better", I always had the feeling that the boss didn't really know what he or she wanted but that they would know it when they saw it.    

  

Vague terms such as "performed correctly", "more efficient", "do it better", don't fly.  It's up to the person asking for perfection to define very specifically what they expect.  And more importantly, it's up to the person being asked to do the task to specifically define their constraints and resource limitations so that both can agree upon a mutual solution.   

  

  

  

 
February 18, 2006, 4:09 pm CST

It's Not a Movie

I suspect that Grant is getting his expectations of what a family should be like, from movie and television dramas. Those wives on TV can make immaculate homes, why not his wife?

First of all, everything about a studio set is planned in advance. The director does not want anything there that distracts from telling the story -- the real purpose of the show. There will not be a pile of dirty laundry unless it sets the mood of the household or creates a necessary conflict in the script between characters. There will not be empty beer cans on the counter or cat hair on the carpet unless it tells you about the personality of a character.

Secondly, the people you see in the drama are not the ones who are keeping the carpet cleaned. That's done by late-night custodial staff, and by union set dressers in between takes. The clothes are washed or dry cleaned by the costume department.

Thirdly, the way the actors look, is not to their credit (well except for their bone structure and fitness). There is a whole department to do their hair and make up. And costumers follow them around to keep wrinkles out of the clothes and to brush off lint.

Fourthly, they have a SCRIPT. Nearly every word they say is planned in advance. They have a DIRECTOR who tells them where to stand, what frame of mind their character is in, and who critiques the manner in which they deliver their lines. And they get MULTIPLE TAKES.

So when you see the dishes pointing different ways in the dishwasher, you think "that's not what real life is like." But it IS. The dishes point the same way, ONLY IN COMMERCIALS. It's FAKE. Real life does consist of moderate chaos. Why are you insisting that your wife be FAKE? Perhaps you need more experience with what genuine people's lives are like without directors, costumers, and set dressers.

Besides, if you want your wife to do 75 different things, do you realize that you would need several different departments of housekeeping staff?

 
February 18, 2006, 6:46 pm CST

Glad you were there - what are your thoughts

Quote From: buckleypat

First of all, I have to say I attended this particular show as a live audience member.  And I watched the original Grant and Kelly episode months earlier.   

  

It brought back thoughts to my corporate experience, the term "operational definition".  If, as Dr. Phil says, everything is negotiated (including relationships), then operational definition can be a useful tool in almost any setting.  It is repeatable, understandable, has a "yes" or "no" answer and, in most cases, can be agreed upon by both parties.  If the terms are specific.   

  

As an engineer, Grant should understand that there are two types of data.  Variable and attribute.  Variable is when you have a light dimmer or sound control on the t.v.   It is variably controlled gradually.  Attribute data is binary --  yes or no, on or off.  Did you do something or not?  In a marriage, you definitely need some "bumper room".   Does loading the dishwasher correctly mean all plates are facing in the same direction with all like-sized plates in graduating order?  Does the furniture placed correctly mean perpendicular placement of a sofa x-inches from the wall.   Exactly what does it mean to fold clothes correctly? 

  

I can SO sympathize with Kelly's struggle.  After working for years in the corporate world and being told "well, that could have gone better", I always had the feeling that the boss didn't really know what he or she wanted but that they would know it when they saw it.    

  

Vague terms such as "performed correctly", "more efficient", "do it better", don't fly.  It's up to the person asking for perfection to define very specifically what they expect.  And more importantly, it's up to the person being asked to do the task to specifically define their constraints and resource limitations so that both can agree upon a mutual solution.   

  

  

  

I appreciate your insightful comments, thank you. 

Since you were there when we did the taping, you were present for much more 

of our time with Dr. Phil than will most likely air Tuesday. Kelly and I are wagering 

between us - will I come off looking like a hero, or a zero. You don't ever know how 

the show will air after the production team pieces things together. We have been 

keeping in touch with our friends that were at the taping also, James and Amy. 

  

I decided a while back that perfection is in the eyes of the beholder and is also a function 

of present circumstances of life. Since the first show, I have really tried to put away the 

measuring calipers and white gloves - there are more important things to occupy my time. 

As you point out in your post, it would take an immense amount of energy to be so controlling. 

  

  

 
February 19, 2006, 7:48 am CST

02/21 More Wifestyles

Quote From: buckleypat

First of all, I have to say I attended this particular show as a live audience member.  And I watched the original Grant and Kelly episode months earlier.   

  

It brought back thoughts to my corporate experience, the term "operational definition".  If, as Dr. Phil says, everything is negotiated (including relationships), then operational definition can be a useful tool in almost any setting.  It is repeatable, understandable, has a "yes" or "no" answer and, in most cases, can be agreed upon by both parties.  If the terms are specific.   

  

As an engineer, Grant should understand that there are two types of data.  Variable and attribute.  Variable is when you have a light dimmer or sound control on the t.v.   It is variably controlled gradually.  Attribute data is binary --  yes or no, on or off.  Did you do something or not?  In a marriage, you definitely need some "bumper room".   Does loading the dishwasher correctly mean all plates are facing in the same direction with all like-sized plates in graduating order?  Does the furniture placed correctly mean perpendicular placement of a sofa x-inches from the wall.   Exactly what does it mean to fold clothes correctly? 

  

I can SO sympathize with Kelly's struggle.  After working for years in the corporate world and being told "well, that could have gone better", I always had the feeling that the boss didn't really know what he or she wanted but that they would know it when they saw it.    

  

Vague terms such as "performed correctly", "more efficient", "do it better", don't fly.  It's up to the person asking for perfection to define very specifically what they expect.  And more importantly, it's up to the person being asked to do the task to specifically define their constraints and resource limitations so that both can agree upon a mutual solution.   

  

  

  

great viewpoint! 

  

What was it like to be in the audience? I'm going to get tickets soon so I was just curious. 

 
February 19, 2006, 8:54 am CST

uh oh

Grant's not wearing his wedding ring?  That's not a good sign.
 
February 19, 2006, 9:29 am CST

your answer

Quote From: gallen

I appreciate your insightful comments, thank you. 

Since you were there when we did the taping, you were present for much more 

of our time with Dr. Phil than will most likely air Tuesday. Kelly and I are wagering 

between us - will I come off looking like a hero, or a zero. You don't ever know how 

the show will air after the production team pieces things together. We have been 

keeping in touch with our friends that were at the taping also, James and Amy. 

  

I decided a while back that perfection is in the eyes of the beholder and is also a function 

of present circumstances of life. Since the first show, I have really tried to put away the 

measuring calipers and white gloves - there are more important things to occupy my time. 

As you point out in your post, it would take an immense amount of energy to be so controlling. 

  

  

If Kelly actually smiles this time around and doesent look so unbelievably sad and lonely then odds are you will come off as a hero. 

  

As much as your first appearance on the show annoyed the ever loving crap outta me,  I cant help but hope you will come off as the hero and I will FINALLY see your wife smile and that light in her eyes shining away.  Shes much too beautiful of a woman to look so sad and alone.    Hope to see her smile!     

  

p.s.  if she still has the same horrid look on her face then expect to be hearing back from me!   lol 

 
February 19, 2006, 11:30 am CST

02/21 More Wifestyles

I'm with you, momisme.  I am really hoping that grant was able to make that switch in his head from thinking about his expectations to thinking about all that he and kelly can give each other.  It will make me sad if they are still stuck in a power struggle over housework.
 
February 20, 2006, 6:54 am CST

The expectations are based on reality, not TV like you suggest

Quote From: farfelo

I suspect that Grant is getting his expectations of what a family should be like, from movie and television dramas. Those wives on TV can make immaculate homes, why not his wife?

First of all, everything about a studio set is planned in advance. The director does not want anything there that distracts from telling the story -- the real purpose of the show. There will not be a pile of dirty laundry unless it sets the mood of the household or creates a necessary conflict in the script between characters. There will not be empty beer cans on the counter or cat hair on the carpet unless it tells you about the personality of a character.

Secondly, the people you see in the drama are not the ones who are keeping the carpet cleaned. That's done by late-night custodial staff, and by union set dressers in between takes. The clothes are washed or dry cleaned by the costume department.

Thirdly, the way the actors look, is not to their credit (well except for their bone structure and fitness). There is a whole department to do their hair and make up. And costumers follow them around to keep wrinkles out of the clothes and to brush off lint.

Fourthly, they have a SCRIPT. Nearly every word they say is planned in advance. They have a DIRECTOR who tells them where to stand, what frame of mind their character is in, and who critiques the manner in which they deliver their lines. And they get MULTIPLE TAKES.

So when you see the dishes pointing different ways in the dishwasher, you think "that's not what real life is like." But it IS. The dishes point the same way, ONLY IN COMMERCIALS. It's FAKE. Real life does consist of moderate chaos. Why are you insisting that your wife be FAKE? Perhaps you need more experience with what genuine people's lives are like without directors, costumers, and set dressers.

Besides, if you want your wife to do 75 different things, do you realize that you would need several different departments of housekeeping staff?

I wasn't sure how to react to your post when I read it the other day. You lay out a very detailed analysis and description of what goes on behind the scenes of filming and preparing something for television or cinema. I could only think of two reasons for doing so. 

  

Do you honestly believe that your explanation of Hollywood was a shocking surprise to me, or that you were providing the missing pieces of reality that I have been unknowingly looking for? I hate to disappoint you. Star Trek is science fiction, Desperate Housewives is a very fun prime-time soap opera that airs Sunday nights, and 24, with my man Jack Bauer, is a slightly exaggerated re-enactment of real life events, and Grissom doesn't really get the DNA results back from the lab in time to solve the case before the credits role. 

  

The other possibility is that you were taking a sarcastic jab at me, trying to do so with a little flair by trying to talk down at me. My ideas are not original; they come from hearing what other REAL LIFE people have told me about their relationships and division of household labor. It might really rock your world to learn that one of these people is my wife Kelly. After the show aired in October, a number of people shared with me that they were facing similar differences in their marriages. Some people are ok with settling for just living with it; the strife, increasing arguing and hurt feelings, but I wanted to do something about it. Taking all this to Dr. Phil was a choice I made, infrequently questioned, but haven't regretted. Let me go on a tangent for just a minute, but I think the crisis of society is partly due to the absence of the personal accountability and responsibility. In the parenting and family magazines that I read, the era of the 1950's is frequently used as a comparison to the domestic 'health' of families today. In a way, I am suggesting that if something worked then it should be used today. Technology doesn't fall into this category; I'm an engineer. Having Mom at home when the kids came home from school kept them out of trouble, doing their homework and keeping an eye on who they were associating with. Crime statistics, teen pregnancies, drop-out rates, gang violence, drug usage by teens, etc..., are indicators to me that more of the same 'laid-back or hands-free parenting' is only going to get us into more trouble. We had a hospital in town shut down a few years ago because people were not paying their bills for treatment they had received. There is another hospital up the street facing similar problems. So, where am I headed with this - let me tell you. Kids learn from their parents, and parents that do not accept their responsibilities will probably raise kids that simply rely on the government systems to further their own existence. I lived in Springfield, Mass. for several months where I witnessed generations of welfare dependant families living in government subsidized housing. I made a list of what I wife ought to be familiar with, because I thought those things were important. I have a similar list of things for husbands. Problems occur when fathers, mothers, wives and husbands aren't held accountable for their responsibilities. I don't think keeping a clean house, tending to kids, mending what needs to be mended, cooking dinner and having it ready for the family to sit down for together are wildly outside the realm of the expected. Frankly, I am a little concerned by your apparent thinking that it is unreasonable to expect these things.  

  

  

I provided Dr Phil a list of things that I thought a stay at home wife ought to be familiar with. I never discussed perfection or any degree of competency with these listed items - they were just general knowledge. There are libraries of books written to contain the stuff women think their male counterparts ought to know about themselves. From your post it sounds like 75 is too much for you to handle on your own and would need back up to get the rest done - what is your number? What do you feel responsible for being aware of in your role in you present relationship? Lists aren't inherently evil or bad - it is one way of putting information down so it can be shared and discussed. 

 
February 20, 2006, 8:03 am CST

02/21 More Wifestyles

Quote From: gallen

I wasn't sure how to react to your post when I read it the other day. You lay out a very detailed analysis and description of what goes on behind the scenes of filming and preparing something for television or cinema. I could only think of two reasons for doing so. 

  

Do you honestly believe that your explanation of Hollywood was a shocking surprise to me, or that you were providing the missing pieces of reality that I have been unknowingly looking for? I hate to disappoint you. Star Trek is science fiction, Desperate Housewives is a very fun prime-time soap opera that airs Sunday nights, and 24, with my man Jack Bauer, is a slightly exaggerated re-enactment of real life events, and Grissom doesn't really get the DNA results back from the lab in time to solve the case before the credits role. 

  

The other possibility is that you were taking a sarcastic jab at me, trying to do so with a little flair by trying to talk down at me. My ideas are not original; they come from hearing what other REAL LIFE people have told me about their relationships and division of household labor. It might really rock your world to learn that one of these people is my wife Kelly. After the show aired in October, a number of people shared with me that they were facing similar differences in their marriages. Some people are ok with settling for just living with it; the strife, increasing arguing and hurt feelings, but I wanted to do something about it. Taking all this to Dr. Phil was a choice I made, infrequently questioned, but haven't regretted. Let me go on a tangent for just a minute, but I think the crisis of society is partly due to the absence of the personal accountability and responsibility. In the parenting and family magazines that I read, the era of the 1950's is frequently used as a comparison to the domestic 'health' of families today. In a way, I am suggesting that if something worked then it should be used today. Technology doesn't fall into this category; I'm an engineer. Having Mom at home when the kids came home from school kept them out of trouble, doing their homework and keeping an eye on who they were associating with. Crime statistics, teen pregnancies, drop-out rates, gang violence, drug usage by teens, etc..., are indicators to me that more of the same 'laid-back or hands-free parenting' is only going to get us into more trouble. We had a hospital in town shut down a few years ago because people were not paying their bills for treatment they had received. There is another hospital up the street facing similar problems. So, where am I headed with this - let me tell you. Kids learn from their parents, and parents that do not accept their responsibilities will probably raise kids that simply rely on the government systems to further their own existence. I lived in Springfield, Mass. for several months where I witnessed generations of welfare dependant families living in government subsidized housing. I made a list of what I wife ought to be familiar with, because I thought those things were important. I have a similar list of things for husbands. Problems occur when fathers, mothers, wives and husbands aren't held accountable for their responsibilities. I don't think keeping a clean house, tending to kids, mending what needs to be mended, cooking dinner and having it ready for the family to sit down for together are wildly outside the realm of the expected. Frankly, I am a little concerned by your apparent thinking that it is unreasonable to expect these things.  

  

  

I provided Dr Phil a list of things that I thought a stay at home wife ought to be familiar with. I never discussed perfection or any degree of competency with these listed items - they were just general knowledge. There are libraries of books written to contain the stuff women think their male counterparts ought to know about themselves. From your post it sounds like 75 is too much for you to handle on your own and would need back up to get the rest done - what is your number? What do you feel responsible for being aware of in your role in you present relationship? Lists aren't inherently evil or bad - it is one way of putting information down so it can be shared and discussed. 

Oh' my god................... 

This can't be true... please tell me it's not true. If I don't stack my dishes in the correct and proper manner my children will become just another statistic? They will be welfare dependant and living in subsidized housing? 

Well, we can't have that now can we..............master? 

 
February 20, 2006, 8:59 am CST

Broken Windows...

Quote From: fl4012

Oh' my god................... 

This can't be true... please tell me it's not true. If I don't stack my dishes in the correct and proper manner my children will become just another statistic? They will be welfare dependant and living in subsidized housing? 

Well, we can't have that now can we..............master? 

There is a theory that exists in the civic government and law enforcement circles that is referred to as Broken Windows. To paraphrase it, a house with broken windows shows that no one cares. If neglected long enough, the house with broken windows will be assumed to be abandoned, invaded by mischief seekers (or worse) and rapidly decay from there. My interpretation of this theory is that attention to details is very important. Not every kid that witnesses his mother neglecting her home will become a drug pusher or a pimp on the south side of town. I think you really extended yourself making that kind of conclusion. But, what does it teach a kid about grooming and personal cleanliness when he or she grows up in a house kept in disarray. Children benefit from routines in their lives - go look it up in a book.
 
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