Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

.....All you have to do is read the multitude of posts here.  There is a great deal of advise for Kelly here from seasoned women but I'm afraid most of it won't meet with your approval.  More times than not, the advise is that she should do the best she can, and if that's not good enough for you....too bad.  There have been hundreds of letters written from "older mothers" saying that the children are her first priority, and she should forget about trying to do housework perfectly.  There has also been a great deal written about handing YOU the broom or mop if you are dissatisfied.  However, you seem to pick and choose the advise you want.  There's been a lot posted here about how to become a really good husband too, but I suspect that has also been ignored by you.

Get a clue.  I never said that the SAHW didn't work.  What I did imply was that being a SAHW is a REAL JOB and a choice typically.  As such the SAHW should consider it a job and not take advantage of the situation.  Marriage is a partnership.  If One spouse works outside the home and brings in the paycheck then it should not be unreasonable for the other spouse to work around the house including cleaning, cooking, child care and laundry.   

  

Some people may be unable to accomplish this due to too much TV or too busy posting 100's of messages on Dr Phils Web Site (I think you know who I am talking about) and GOD knows how many on Oprah's, Ricki's, Jerry's, etc etc etc.   

  

"If you went to work & did your best every day but for 1 reason or another there were unforseen things that came at you that made it look like you hadn't done what you're capable of how would you feel if this is what your boss focused on EVERYDAY?  " 

If that happened every day I WOULD BE FIRED and have no money coming in.   The rest would become a non-issue since we would lose the house the 2 cars, the clothes, the food, Etc Etc Etc.   

  

GET IT?????????????? 

I am really surprised at Dr. Phil for missing a psychology 101 issue. I have been watching for a long time and he has been pretty helpful for most people...those that really want to be helped. As my husband and I watched the show (that I taped and watched today), for the first time in my life I wanted to yell at the TV! He totally missed the personality type issue. 

  

http://www.personalitypathways.com/type_inventory.html 

  

On the personality test, it shows a graph and you are either a thinker or a feeler. Feelers are very emotional people. Grant, you are obviously a thinker. Thinkers are very analytical and with you being an engineer you have to be very analytical to be good at your job. As soon as Dr. Phil mentioned your job title, it hit me what the problem is and then everything that fell right into your personality type. 

  

The personality test has been used in part of a hiring process by companies and by career counselors to help people find their "calling". For instance, you wouldn't put an introvert in a customer service position. They may do ok in the position, but they are not comfortable or happy in that position. For instance, I got my degree in computers and I'm a feeler instead of a thinker. Luckily I am very intelligent so I can learn pretty easily, but I often notice I have to try harder or study more than most analytical coworkers. I am amazed at times how easily it comes to them and wonder if they are freaks of nature. I enjoy what I do, but you can see that it probably wasn't my best choice when choosing a career. 

  

I don't think that Grant is the worse husband in the world nor is Kelly is a horrible wife. I think that with this information you would have come back to the Dr. Phil show and talked about how happy you two are. Instead you are confused about what you two can do to improve your marriage and why you can't just get "it". I think that knowledge is power and if you know where each other are coming from then you can understand what you are trying to say. 

  

Analytical people have a very hard time understanding emotions. Everything has to be organized. They feel better and more at ease when every I is dotted and every T is crossed. When Grant was questioned why he wasn't wearing his ring, he couldn't answer the question because it had to do with emotions. Analytical people have a hard time pinpointing emotions and don't understand it (not to say that they don't feel like the rest of us, just that they have a hard time with understanding emotions). 

  

Every person has their comfort zone and that is part of your comfort zone. Kelly needs to understand that is just how Grant feels at ease and try to work towards that to make him happy. He has to also understand what makes Kelly feel her comfort zone. 

  

Grant, I'm going to give you the "it" in black and white. Men often seem so confused when trying to understand women and the ones coming out of divorce court are usually the stupid quitters. Kelly seems like 99.9% of the women out there and since I'm part of that percentage, I hope I don't step out of line by speaking for her. 

  

Every woman was once a little girl that enjoyed fairy tales, loves getting flowers, and wants to feel special. Kelly wants to feel like she is special to you. Every woman wants that. Kelly saying she wants to be accepted is a major understatement! Women want to feel like their husband think of them as the best woman on earth...like a princess. Men can't seem to get that. The better you treat your wife, the better your relationship is. Kelly is no different than any woman out there that wants... the "emotional acceptance". Make her feel special! Leave notes saying you love her for her to find. Let her overhear you talking about how great she is. Come up to her and give her a passionate kiss out of the blue. Buying things doesn't make her feel special, your actions do. 

  

My best advice for you is to get in touch with your femine side. Like I said before, MOST women are emotional so don't think that you and Kelly are incompatible. If you and Kelly get a divorce, you will find this issue in every relationship in your future. Just like how I was explaining my career choice, explain to Kelly that you are not an emotional person, but you are going to try to work on it.  Just accept the fact that this is a part of life that you are going to have to conform to if you want to be happy in a relationship with Kelly or any other woman. Most people in a marriage are happy when their spouse is happy. That is how most people measure success. So what's more important to you?...a clean house or a happy wife. Sometimes you can't have both. 

  

Test my theory...get a sitter and take Kelly out for something SHE likes to do. Don't let her know what you are doing...surprise her with it. Tell her you are doing this to show her how much you love her and see how her smile comes back and happy she becomes. Soon you two will try to out-do each other. You give her the emotional up she needs and she will give you the organized up you need. 

  

I really hope this helps! 

  

Sandie, 

ESFJ 

  

Shame on you Dr. Phil for missing this... 

 This came from another post: 

1) A counselor experienced in relationship issues and had worked with engineers. You thought it seemed like a good fit. What happened with that?  

We kind of hit a flat spot and lost momentum. You might say I am a "free agent" if you follow athletics.  

I follow athletics (my husband and son are coaches.)  If I were to hazard a guess, you either didn't want to be coached, were deemed uncoachable, or found you didn't really want to play the game.  Which was it? 

  

I thought you would agree that the 7 Habits book was "good stuff".  Correct me if I'm wrong, but the sentence you would probably pick out of the book as most relative to your situation is "Holding people to the responsible course is not demeaning; it is affirming."   

 

The book includes a paragraph that states "When two people in a marriage are more concerned about getting the golden eggs, the benefits, than they are in preserving the relationship that makes them possible, they often become insensitive and inconsiderate, neglecting the little kindnesses and courtesies so important to a deep relationship.  They begin to use control levers to manipulate each other, to focus on their own needs, to justify their own position and look for evidence to show the wrongness of the other person.  The love, the richness, the softness and spontaneity begin to deteriorate.  The goose gets sicker day by day."   I think you realize your goose (your marriage) is sick.  I also think it's sick because of your short-sighted view of what constitutes a "responsible course" for your family.   

  

"Look at the weaknesses of others with compassion, not accusation.  It's not what they're not doing or should be doing that's the issue.  The issue is your own chosen response to the situation and what you should be doing.  If you start to think the problem is "out there," stop yourself.  That thought is the problem."   "We are responsible for our own effectiveness, for our own happiness, and ultimately, I would say, for most of our circumstances." 

 

If you want a solution to your dissatisfaction with your marriage, I suggest you start really looking at the problem from Kelly's position "Seek first to understand, then to be understood."  And stop feeling unappreciated when you know in your heart of hearts that efforts you are making to fix the problem are really delaying tactics designed to ultimately "get your way" instead of deposits into Kelly's "emotional bank account."   

  

Hope this gives you a different slant on some thoughts to ponder.  I'm trying to come at the issues from where you are, to find or say something in a way that clicks for you, which is tough when I don't really know you!  But I do care.  It's no fun to be where you are.   

  

  

Are you serious? 

  

What if Kelly doesn't like the way Grant engineered the newest building in town?  Is she to do it HERSELF?  Please... 

  

Or what if Grant decides to take off work for a month without consulting anyone and he's not paid?  Do you think that Kelly has a right to say something?  OF COURSE!!  It affects her and the kids, so she has a right... 

  

Much as Grant has the right to mention to Kelly that the way she is loading knives in the dishwasher could cause harm to one of the kids if she isn't paying attention while unloading it, or if the pantry is so extremely disorganized that both are being inefficient when trying to use it.... 

  

It's the same thing...Because each of them have chosen roles for this household and Kelly should be ready for the hardships, much as Grant is with his position. 

imo...bottom line.. 

  

IT IS NOT ABOUT THE TASKS, IT IS ABOUT YOUR ATTITUDE & RESPECT FOR YOUR PARTNER.  Are you making them feel like they are valued? 

My husband has MANY hobbies... where to start?  He is very big into computers.  As in building, gaming, etc.  He spends at least an hour to two, minimum, daily working on computers at home (or playing games via the internet).  He also enjoys reading (even when we sit to have dinner, there is a book  or magazine in his hand).  He has a collection of model trains, planes, and model police cars.  He was a civillian cop before joining up in the military and enjoyed practicing shooting.  (We are separating from the military soon, and he is already planning on spending a lot of time at the shooting range.)  I could go on and on...  

  

I think it is important for a couple to have things that they can do separately from one another.  I encourage my husband in his interests.  I just want equal billing for when it comes to my interests and some help when it comes time to a clean house.  My interests tend to take me away from the house (I like going for walks, bike rides, walking our dog, taking our dog to obedience classes, etc), so I see it as only reasonable, since he spends more time in the house than I do (and often it is his mess that needs cleaning up!!!  --he can be a bit absent minded, but that is another show!).  

If Kelly doesn't like how Grant engineered a building, she is to do or say NOTHING because she is not his boss!!  A marital relationship is really nothing like an  employment relationship! 

  

Grant did not come on the show expressing a concern that Kelly's housekeeping was endangering the children. He had an inventory of ways to fix or improve Kelly as a housekeeper, wife, cook, etc. It's not that some concerns were not legitimate. I think Dr. Phil turned the topic away from the house stuff and towards the marriage stuff because he understands that the MARRIAGE is way more important than the house. 

  

  

God forbid that something happens to the "Stay at Home" Mom or Dad.  Since they do their job so well that there's no way the other could do it....What on earth would the Corporate Working person do if they can't even wash a load of laundry?   

  

I for one am comforted in knowing that my husband can do everything I do and know that if something were to happen to me, that he would carry on okay and take of things at home as well as our children.   

Have any of you ever really tried to communicate with an emotional extreme version of yourself. Image what your husband must think the next time you go off at him in one of your moods.  

Hmm... from Kelly's posts (and yours) I didn't get the impression that Kelly was a bitch.  I gather she's not spineless or stupid, but I also haven't seen any posts where she seems to be what I would consider a whiner,  either.   

  

That said, you give me cause to pause and consider...  Hmm, my husband has all kinds of hobbies, but it never dawned on me that he might be keeping himself so busy in order to avoid me.  Of course that probably wouldn't work anyway since I'm usually sharing his interests with him.   

  

I'll grant you there are a lot, and I mean a lot, of women (and men) out there who I think being married to would be the definition of hell on earth.  But let me ask you, Grant... do you plan to join the ranks of the "seasoned" married men who use hobbies as an excuse to avoid their wives?