Topic : 02/21 More Wifestyles

Hmmm...or my Mom and Dad who lived through them, my wonderful grandparents...Let's see, everyone on this message board that keeps referencing them...and of course, not to leave anyone out, YOU :)  

It's not hard to read or ask questions to find out about a decade.  For example, when my kids are born and old enough to have inquiring minds, they'll ask what 2006 was like and I'll explain that mostly men and women argued over who HAD to stay home with the kids, marriages failed left and right for reasons that could have so easily been avoided had someone taught just a little bit about why people actually get married in the first place, there were more fake body parts than real ones, women fought and fought for more rights, so much that the pendulum actually starting swinging the other way and qualified well-skilled men were out of jobs so that companies could meet their "women quota," McDonalds made skinny people fat and fat people fatter, the world was mostly greedy and selfish and would kill their Grandmother to make a couple of bucks, and last but certainly not least, children would start daycare at 3 months old and call their teacher "Mommy" at 2 and slowly start to wonder who these people were that picked them up at 7 every night and argued until it was time for bed, in the car the next morning, and while they were dropping the poor child off at his REAL Mommy's place... 

And my children will have my words and my words only to go by, but they will have a beautiful picture of what this decade was like and be glad that I was raising them like my parents were in the precious, but not always perfect, 1950's... 

This is primarily to Kelly. I hope you read the boards. After watching the show I had to find a way to tell you how much I related to your story. I felt the strangest feeling while watching the show. I was answering Dr. Phil's questions as if he was speaking directly to me. My experience so closely mimicks your own. It was bizarre on one hand, and on the other hand a relief to know that I'm not crazy. I have been married 12 years. I will tell you that my husband and I recently decided to separate because he can't shake the feeling of not being happy and needs to see if there is more to life than what we have. I was of course distraught at first, but have come to realize that this really is his problem (not that I profess to be perfect), much like this is Grant's problem not yours! In my situation, I tried so hard to be the perfect wife to the point that I felt like I didn't know who I was anymore. I felt like I was doing all the work to improve and he was just barking out the orders. I was willing to put forth that kind of effort because my relationship is worth it. It still is. But I came to a harsh realization that no matter how hard I try, it will always fall short of the mark. I want him to accept me the way I am, and until he can do that, no amount of work I put into this marriage will ever be enough. Honestly, I feel bad for people like Grant and my husband. It must be very aggravating to constantly go through life disappointed all the time. My husband has high expectations for just about anybody in his life. I think it has to do a lot with how he was raised, as his father had similar expectations for him - and he fell short too.  I tell you all this, because I hope you will read this and feel a sense that I truly know what you are going through. You are fortunate that Grant is willing to acknowledge his problem and put forth the effort to change. My husband hasn't come to that point yet. I believe he will; I just hope it will not be too late. Sadly, since we've decided to separate, a huge burden has been lifted from me and I find myself much more relaxed even though he does not move out until next month. And yet, I would keep giving it my full effort if he would say he was willing to do the same. I am hopeful that our separation will be a new beginning for us and not the end. By the way, I applaud you for maintaining your composure when the girl in the audience gave her perspective on the situation. You handled that with such class and dignity. It literally hurt my stomach to hear her speak. She just doesn't quite get it yet. I guarantee I have put more effort into this marriage than most people would be willing to do, and I expect you feel the same. I am curious if things have improved for you since the show. As I listened to Dr. Phil's advice, although I understood what he meant, I didn't feel like my husband would quite understand what he meant (although I am going to have him watch the show since I taped it). I would love to hear from you and talk to you more. It is always nice to have someone who understands what you are going through. I would allow the Dr. Phil folks to give you my email address if you would like to talk further. Meanwhile, keep taking the high road! I wish you two the very best .  

Please do not assume that I have not "been there".  As I have stated before, Grant truely was a pussycat compared to my husband.  My point has always been that women have a tough time truely listening to what their husbands want.  They do things that they think will appreciate and overlook the things that they have asked for because it might not be the fun thing to do. 

Unfortunately, so many times things end in divorce because so many people have the "you first" attitude towards fixing a situation. I am truely sorry that you and your husband are having such a tough time.  My husband filed for divorce twice before we figured things out.   I needed to change the way I looked at him.  It took me two days to write him a letter just to tell him I loved him because I was so hurt by what had taken place and the names that I had been called that at that point I didn't know if it was worth it.  Now, 8 months later we are stronger than we have ever been because I changed my perspective on the way I viewed him and our marriage.  I had to take that first leap and really put myself out there.  He changed too though.  I couldn't spend all my time trying to change him and that is how I failed him in our marriage before we were able to fix things.  

Diana, have read the posting through both shows and I alternately think you are right on or out of your mind. I have a feeling you are more middle ground than you come across.

I don't get the sense that Stay at home Moms think, be nice, chase the kids, and your day is done. It's the idea of viewing your spouse as your employer/boss that offends many women. Think about it, most companies will not allow spouses to work in the same department, especially if one is in a supervisory position. It rarely works.

Before I met my wonderful husband, I was in a relationship with a man who was incredibly critical (ironically enough, he was an electrical engineer!). he told me how to drive, dress, cook, brush my teeth, and do MY job as a teacher. ANd the relationship doesn't start that way,,,,it is slow, and insidious until you are so demoralized and emotionally drained you don't know how to break the cycle . I thank God everyday that I didn't marry the guy. With children, it would have gotten so much worse. The kicker is, he HONESTLY thought what he was doing was okay. His take was, if I'm better at something, why shouldn't I show you how to so it better. I'm helping! Somehow, he assumed he was better at EVERYTHING!

Maybe the big NOT GETTING IT is not living in someone else's shoes. Bree says she is 24 and married two years. If she met her Prince Charming at such a young age and they truly share a vision for their family and future, that's great. Most of us had to kiss a few frogs along the way and have become jaded and defensive. To make yourself financially and emotionally vulnerable to someone else can be scary.

I think Dr. Phil GETS IT. (I am a huge fan) If you read the overview of this topic it states that he focused on Grant because his critical spirit was overshadowing anything Kelly was doing or not doing. I don't think reorganizing the house will fix the relationship. I do believe that fixing the relationship might help get the externals of the house in order.

Strangely, since the show aired, I've had a really good week in terms of keeping my own two toddler house in order. Go figure! My husband is also getting lots of appreciation (if the house gets crazy, he asks, how can I help?). Now I have to go peel Elmo stickers off the kitchen floor!

Julie

Be careful what you wish for.  Let's take child rearing for example: 

Will your children be exposed to diversity, or will they be taught to hate and discriminate against anyone who doesn't look just like them?  (You are obviously not a person of color yourself, or there's NO WAY you'd be wishing for the 50's!)  Will you teach your daughter that she's less than a man?  There's certainly no reason for her to go to college---the corporate world won't accept her.  If she does attend, she will be very much in the minority.   All she'll learn in high school is basic math, cooking, cleaning, and sewing.  If she has a talent for math or science, she'll be an outcast.  The most important thing she can have is good looks---because it will be mandatory that she "catch a man" to take care of her.  Don't even think about putting her in any sports.  Oh, and make sure she knows she'll have to remain a virgin until marriage, lest she be branded for life!  (BTW, were you?)  On the other hand, your husband can congratulate his son on any conquests.  If he is a real genius, he might get to go to college.  He'd better be good at sports, fixing cars, or something else MANLY.  If he likes to read, or is artistic, has a talent for music, is interested in cooking or anything girly of the like, he'll be looked down upon.  Of course he'll never be exposed to technology of any kind.  There will be no computers.  If you're lucky your family might own one television, but there will be nothing on it for children (perhaps one hour a day).  Maybe once a week your kids will be able to see a movie---if you can afford it and they have transportation.  Your husband will have the only vehicle with him at work.  I hope you'll figure out a way to entertain your young kids while you take care of your hours and hours of work each day.  If you're lucky you'll own a wringer-type washer, but of course there will be no dryer.  You'll hang all the clothes out on the line.  And there's no permanent press---you'll iron everything, including sheets, towels, and underwear.  There will be no microwave and no convenience foods.  You'll prepare everything completely from scratch.  If you want canned or frozen vegetables, you'll spend the summer canning them or putting them up yourself.  You'll also make pickles, jellies, etc.  Even a simple cup of coffee won't be all that simple---you'll use a perculator.  There will be no shopping in malls.  Most of your clothing will be handmade---you'll HAVE to know how to sew.  No help with cleaning either.  No wall-to-wall carpeting.  Your bare floors will be swept and mopped.  You'll beat your area rugs outside.  You'll dust every day.  There will be no fancy cleaning products.  You'll use bleach and water.  After you've finished your hours and hours of work, your husband will expect you to be wearing your freshly ironed dress (BTW, your daughter will wear an ironed dress every day too).  There will be no curling iron or hair dryer---you'll have to sleep in rollers if you are to presentable.  Your husband will likely have a weekly night out with the boys, but you certainly won't be welcome.  There will be no fast food, and you'll rarely get to eat in a restaurant.  And heaven forbid anything ever happens to your husband, or your daughter doesn't marry, because women certainly aren't welcome in the work place.  And if you don't like it....tough.  There will be no protests lest you be beat by the police with their night sticks or shot with a firehose.  You'll certainly never have an opportunity to have a place of power in government either.  I could go on and on--- 

Like I say, be careful what you wish for.  The 50's DON'T "rule".    

Okay, for one...I don't think that if I was a virgin when I was married in any business of yours at all, but for the sake of argument (and partly because I'm proud of my achievment in waiting for marriage) I'll answer the question...Yes.  I was a virgin when I was married.  Now, granted, I was 22 when I was married so the wait wasn't a lifetime or anything, but something that I feel wonderful about and preach and teach until the day that I die.   

Secondly, we both know that anyone who has expressed that the 50's were wonderful on these boards (including me)...well actually, perhaps just Diana and myself, were strictly talking about the way the woman took care of the house and raising the kids and the man took care of all financial matters...I appreciate your novel of a comeback up there but it's obvious that I wouldn't wish discrimination on ANY human being (and by the way, I don't think using the term "woman of color" is appropriate this day in age either).  Nor was I implying that my daughter would have to spend her days prettying herself to "catch a man" as you call it... 

But to amuse you and this little game your playing, I wouldn't mind there not being televisions or technology (although the riots on this board have kept me quite entertained and I think I'd miss them without my computer), and I wouldn't care to handmake clothing or cook meals from scratch (in fact, I do that now).  I don't like fast food. I can live without movies and fancy cleaning products.  I already do the equivalant of putting on a nicely ironed dress by changing out of my sweat pants and into something presentable for my husband before he gets home.  It makes me feel better and he certainly appreciates it.  I would NEVER want a place in government.  I think the men do just fine in that area.  And besides, who would want a woman president when every 28 days she just wants to bomb all the countries that are causing trouble for 3-5 days.  (Calm down...Only a joke.)  I wouldn't protest because I wouldn't mind not having the rights.   

You don't get it do you.  You see, I'm not saying that every woman should feel the way I do.  I'm not saying that I am less or weak.  In fact, I think I'm strong enough to let my husband make decisions.  I mean, I was given the ultimate power by choosing to marry whomever I wanted to (assuming they wanted me, of course).  So I chose someone who would respect me and love me.  And I chose someone who would gladly make big decisions in the household (after talking it over with me first, of course).  And I married a man who leaves every morning happy to provide for me and our future family.  He leaves me with a kiss, an "I love you," and arrives with the same.  He never treats me as less, because I'm not.  And I never bow down to him because he's not my God.  We're a team.  Our methods work just fine.  They're not for everyone, obviously...But we love each other and we live life this way and are SO happy doing it.  I'm not trying to change your mind...God knows that's impossible.  I'm only expressing what I have found that works for me.  So trying to scare me with this "reality of the 50's"...You can forget it.  I've taken the good parts of that era and I've made it my own... 

...All you really want from the 50's is for women to stay home with her kids and keep house.  Well, that's just not possible in every instance.  Some women have to work to make ends meet, and day care is the only option for them.  Some women have no man in their lives.  And some women just plain feel like they'll go crazy without an adult to talk to every day.  They feel fulfilled by persuing a career.  Some women feel that they can best serve humanity out in the world as a doctor or a teacher.  It's a matter of choice.  And since you're only 24, have only been married 2 years, and have no children, I don't believe you can say what your lifelong CHOICE will be.  But please don't put down people who have chosen another route---particularly when those people have a bit more life experiences to draw upon. 

P.S.  A "woman of color" means any minority, and it is a perfectly acceptable term---and I believe you have written a novel of your own!