Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

I may not have gotten everything down to a tee....but from what I read that is the gist of the postings.  I am very very convinced that Coach is having horrible behavioural probs with his children...for sure.

Yet was only trying to point out (by his own admission) that he may have ownership in the situation.  Basically trying to say to Coach like H.S. Truman....the buck stops here mentality isn't working for him.

Also, that I was less than pleased to read the post history and saw this stuff.

You and I personally don't agree on the spanking issue and that's fine, doesn't mean any one of us can't find common *humane* ground to seek and learn right?   =)

<3

Fredi

I just want to say WOW!  I haven't read all his messages but I will be sure to next time I decide to give him my advice.  I read some but not all.  Good going on them vows coach.  I mean I don't like to sound rude (which I have in the past on these boards and I am going to try watch my words) but if you are going to search for real advice please be honest on the boards and you might get some real advice.

I want to say that I am sorry for me throwing you under the bus but I can't stand people who lie!  You are on here just to make a comment back to us to make a point and to make it seem like you have no way out.  When that is not true.

"As you can imagine,  it's on my mind every day to leave.  However, there are many obsticles.  Let me say how much I admire any single parents out there.  I keep thinking how I could do it.  Rent, food, clothes, neccessities, gas, insurance, electric, phone, etc.  I do not make enough money to pay all of that on my own."

You told me that you would never leave your wife because of the vow you took but here you are thinking about it and wanting to know how you can do it without her. 

"My wife has not wanted sex in 10 months.  So far, I have not cheated.  Yet!  But I do watch porn.  What other sexual outlet do I have?"

What other sexual outlet do you have?  Well I DO NOT believe in cheating!  I can't believe you said this!  Good going on the vows!  WOW!

"She once told me that every woman she councelled who had spent time in jail had sexual contact with another woman while serving time.  Not one or a few;  EVERY woman"

This statement is not true!  I know many!

  "I don't want to read all my posts to see if I mentioned I truely believe she has a mental illness of some kind,"

You don't even know from you messages what kind of illness she has or if she has one. 

"The message was from my oldest boy who is 12.  The message was to let my dad know where they are so he sends Christmas cards (presents and money) to the right place.   Could you imagine making your 12 year old make a call so you are sure you will get money sent to the right address?" 

You said to me that your boys won't even talk to a professional.  They refuse!  If you can make a 12 year old make a phone call like that then why is it you can't make him talk  to a professional?  Weird!

"I have been through this with her before.  Be assured it's the last."

You have been left by your wife before.  Be assure it's the last time.  You said that. So you are wondering why your boys are like they are.  You have a 4 year old and as of right now in your messages she has left you at least 2 times in the past 4 years.  Why keep putting your kids through that?

"She is with her sister in Michigan.  Second, she left with all our money, leaving me with notices due on everything.  Can afford an attorney or to file for divorce right now.  Next, even if I got divorced and rights to see my boys, I couldn't.  When we moved to Florida, I was on probation in Michigan (driving without insurance).  Leaving Michigan on probation left me with a lifetime warrant.  If I am caught in Michigan, it's 90 days in jail.  She knew this and I believe that's why she chose Michigan."

This proves you always have a excuse for everything.  If it came down to me having to spend 90 days in jail to see my kids so be it!  You always have an excuse.  I am beginning to think that maybe you are a big part of the problem.  You say your wife don't like to be not right but I think you are the one that don't like to be wrong. 

She was seen by several counselors and doctors.  They stated that she should be on Prozac or Valium because she showed symptoms of bi-polar disorder. 

Here you are saying she has seen counselors and doctors but yet right before this you said you BELIEVE she has a mental illness.  You also told me that she wouldn't see anyone!  Which is it coach?

 I felt her hand hit my face; I felt the full beer can hit my thigh; I felt how I limped for a week because of that;  I heard her call me names; I heard her call our oldest boy a fat ass; I heard her call our boys stupid; I heard her tell our boys that someday she would find them a real dad.  I could go on, but I think that's enough. 

You think this is good for your boys to be around?  You wonder why they act like they do.  I would act like they do if I were in the situation too.  This is CRAZY!!!  NO kid should be around this!  You told me before you knew how she was when you married her so why is it you decided to have three kids in this situation?

 I will answer any questions honestly.  To be dishonest here doesn't do any good.  We post here looking for advise.  To be dishonest doesn't help us get the right advice.

You need to really think about this comment!

Cheating involves physical contact.  There is no physical contact if you are on line!".  I really liked that answer because it came from a woman.  And I agree with it.  Cheating is having sexual contact with another person.  How can watching porn be cheating?

I am sorry but I wouldn't want my husband to talk to another woman online nor would I.  I wouldn't even talk to someone that wasn't' appropriate!

 All I can say is trust me that our first 12 years together were amazing.  During the past two her behavior changed dramatically.  She became withdrawn, stayed in the bedroom most of the day, yelling and cussing at me and the boys, very self serving, not caring about anyone but herself. etc.  My guess is bipolar disorder, but I'm not a doctor.

I thought she was like that when you married her?  Your guess she is bipolar but now she hasn't seen a doctor.  Right?  or wrong?

I would say that if my relationship got to the point where she did not want me to join her in any sexual activities, then I probably wouldn't still be around. 

Your relationship did get to that point.  At least that is what you said but remember your vows!

I like to drink.  I get drunk some nights.

Where are your kids when you do this?

By that time, we were all feeling pretty good.  Our landlord skipped some of the phrases and even repeated one.  When it came time to put the ring on her finger, I couldn't get it on; she did it for me.  All we had to drink was five cases of beer I bought on sale.  My best man and his wife bought us a bottle of champagne as a gift.  That was drank by the couple we didn't know.   That was our wedding day. 

Nice wedding!  You probably could of waited before you got drunk until after the wedding.  Again just my opinion.

I have three boys; 12, 10, and 4.  They fight with each other, tease each other, hit each other, talk back to their mother, yell at their mother, and have no respect for her.

I wouldn't have any respect for my mother if she did this to me also.  If my mother didn't respect me I wouldn't her.  They have a right to voice their opinions too and this is the way they are being taught.

So they know if they do something that makes me respond with an elevated voice level,  I'm serious and they stop that particular behavior.  Sometime I don't have to talk, just stare. 

If they stop when you elevate your voice then why do you have a problem with them?  If you stared at me like I think you stare at them I probably would stop too.

THEY DON'T CARE!  They say, "Whatever!", and after the time I've given is over, the behavior continues.

I thought you could just raise your voice or stare at them?

He helps friends out with unruly kids by giving his own boot camp for a day.  He shows up at 4 am, destroys their room, and tells them to clean it.  Once it's clean, he destroys it again.  Then there is push ups and running and chores, etc.  He says he rarely hears about any more trouble from the parents of these kids after his boot camp.  I mentioned this to my oldest boy.  He's not stupid.  He just said, "He can't touch me.  I just won't listen to him."  And, he's right.  My friend can't touch him, so why should he listen?  He's been taught that adults can't hit kids.  Knowing that, he will act however he wants.  I even had a county sheriff talk to my boys.  Same thing.  Sat there with their arms crossed with a scowl on their face.  Would not say a word.  When the Sheriff mentioned they have a boot camp, my oldest shrugged his shoulders.  Later he said, "I don't care if you send me there.  They can't touch me so they can't make me do anything."

Whatever!  They haven't been taught adults can't spank them because you do.  You just make up excuse after excuse.  Your boys are acting like that  but yet you can look at them and they know you mean business.  Right?  Your boys are not this mean!  You just want someone to tell you that you need to spank your kids and they are no other way out.  I do spank my son and I am not for sure if you should spank your kids because you don't like to be wrong.  At all!!

At this point, they have no "currency" left to take.  I have taken it all.  They have no game system, no bikes, no toys, no cell phones.

NO LIFE!

I really don't understand you.  At first I was trying to give you some good advice but now I see that you are just going to make excuse after excuse.  You have a wife that cusses you and your kids out.  You said she physically abuses you,  tells your boys you have another girlfriend, and you do drugs.  You guys split up who really knows how many times.  Your boys are way out of control and you have tried everything.  You say the only thing that works is spanking them but yet they are still out of control.  You and your family needs some help.  You and your wife need to change.  Your boys are in a situation that they need taken out of.  They need taken out of this no matter what!  If CPS needs to step in then something needs to happen.  Someone needs to stand up for these kids.  They need someone who cares about them to do whatever it takes to make things work for them.  Like Dr. Phil says someone needs to be the hero.  My other advice to you in you need to watch what you post on these boards because you are contradicting yourself badly here!

I just wanted to say that in 'watching' you (and several others) try to help coach I have seen what an caring and understanding person you are. You have made great strides in such a short time to watch your words and believe me it makes a difference.

I wasn't trying to upset anyone in suggesting that the post history be read, I just thought it would be beneficial/eye-opening. I have seen postings from people who fall on various places on the 'spanking spectrum' trying to be of help. I have to admit one of my biggest concerns was when I saw another poster suggest that he just go in and spank without warning-what if he done that on a night he had chosen to drink?

Anyway, IMO you have 'grown' a lot in a short time, not that my opinion matters but I just wanted to express that to you.

I want to say that I am sorry for me throwing you under the bus but I can't stand people who lie! You are on here just to make a comment back to us to make a point and to make it seem like you have no way out. When that is not true.

'As you can imagine, it's on my mind every day to leave. However, there are many obsticles. Let me say how much I admire any single parents out there. I keep thinking how I could do it. Rent, food, clothes, neccessities, gas, insurance, electric, phone, etc. I do not make enough money to pay all of that on my own.'

You told me that you would never leave your wife because of the vow you took but here you are thinking about it and wanting to know how you can do it without her.

'My wife has not wanted sex in 10 months. So far, I have not cheated. Yet! But I do watch porn. What other sexual outlet do I have?'

What other sexual outlet do you have? Well I DO NOT believe in cheating! I can't believe you said this! Good going on the vows! WOW!

'She once told me that every woman she councelled who had spent time in jail had sexual contact with another woman while serving time. Not one or a few; EVERY woman'

This statement is not true! I know many!

'I don't want to read all my posts to see if I mentioned I truely believe she has a mental illness of some kind,'

You don't even know from you messages what kind of illness she has or if she has one.

'The message was from my oldest boy who is 12. The message was to let my dad know where they are so he sends Christmas cards (presents and money) to the right place. Could you imagine making your 12 year old make a call so you are sure you will get money sent to the right address?'

You said to me that your boys won't even talk to a professional. They refuse! If you can make a 12 year old make a phone call like that then why is it you can't make him talk to a professional? Weird!

'I have been through this with her before. Be assured it's the last.'

You have been left by your wife before. Be assure it's the last time. You said that. So you are wondering why your boys are like they are. You have a 4 year old and as of right now in your messages she has left you at least 2 times in the past 4 years. Why keep putting your kids through that?

'She is with her sister in Michigan. Second, she left with all our money, leaving me with notices due on everything. Can afford an attorney or to file for divorce right now. Next, even if I got divorced and rights to see my boys, I couldn't. When we moved to Florida, I was on probation in Michigan (driving without insurance). Leaving Michigan on probation left me with a lifetime warrant. If I am caught in Michigan, it's 90 days in jail. She knew this and I believe that's why she chose Michigan.'

This proves you always have a excuse for everything. If it came down to me having to spend 90 days in jail to see my kids so be it! You always have an excuse. I am beginning to think that maybe you are a big part of the problem. You say your wife don't like to be not right but I think you are the one that don't like to be wrong.

She was seen by several counselors and doctors. They stated that she should be on Prozac or Valium because she showed symptoms of bi-polar disorder.

Here you are saying she has seen counselors and doctors but yet right before this you said you BELIEVE she has a mental illness. You also told me that she wouldn't see anyone! Which is it coach?

I felt her hand hit my face; I felt the full beer can hit my thigh; I felt how I limped for a week because of that; I heard her call me names; I heard her call our oldest boy a fat ass; I heard her call our boys stupid; I heard her tell our boys that someday she would find them a real dad.I could go on, but I think that's enough.

You think this is good for your boys to be around? You wonder why they act like they do. I would act like they do if I were in the situation too. This is CRAZY!!! NO kid should be around this! You told me before you knew how she was when you married her so why is it you decided to have three kids in this situation?

I will answer any questions honestly. To be dishonest here doesn't do any good. We post here looking for advise. To be dishonest doesn't help us get the right advice.

You need to really think about this comment!

Cheating involves physical contact. There is no physical contact if you are on line!'. I really liked that answer because it came from a woman. And I agree with it. Cheating is having sexual contact with another person. How can watching porn be cheating?

I am sorry but I wouldn't want my husband to talk to another woman online nor would I. I wouldn't even talk to someone that wasn't' appropriate!

All I can say is trust me that our first 12 years together were amazing. During the past two her behavior changed dramatically. She became withdrawn, stayed in the bedroom most of the day, yelling and cussing at me and the boys, very self serving, not caring about anyone but herself. etc. My guess is bipolar disorder, but I'm not a doctor.

I thought she was like that when you married her? Your guess she is bipolar but now she hasn't seen a doctor. Right? or wrong?

I would say that if my relationship got to the point where she did not want me to join her in any sexual activities, then I probably wouldn't still be around.

Your relationship did get to that point. At least that is what you said but remember your vows!

I like to drink. I get drunk some nights.

Where are your kids when you do this?

By that time, we were all feeling pretty good. Our landlord skipped some of the phrases and even repeated one. When it came time to put the ring on her finger, I couldn't get it on; she did it for me. All we had to drink was five cases of beer I bought on sale. My best man and his wife bought us a bottle of champagne as a gift. That was drank by the couple we didn't know. That was our wedding day.

Nice wedding! You probably could of waited before you got drunk until after the wedding. Again just my opinion.

I have three boys; 12, 10, and 4. They fight with each other, tease each other, hit each other, talk back to their mother, yell at their mother, and have no respect for her.

I wouldn't have any respect for my mother if she did this to me also. If my mother didn't respect me I wouldn't her. They have a right to voice their opinions too and this is the way they are being taught.

So they know if they do something that makes me respond with an elevated voice level, I'm serious and they stop that particular behavior. Sometime I don't have to talk, just stare.

If they stop when you elevate your voice then why do you have a problem with them? If you stared at me like I think you stare at them I probably would stop too.

THEY DON'T CARE! They say, 'Whatever!', and after the time I've given is over, the behavior continues.

I thought you could just raise your voice or stare at them?

He helps friends out with unruly kids by giving his own boot camp for a day. He shows up at 4 am, destroys their room, and tells them to clean it. Once it's clean, he destroys it again. Then there is push ups and running and chores, etc. He says he rarely hears about any more trouble from the parents of these kids after his boot camp. I mentioned this to my oldest boy. He's not stupid. He just said, 'He can't touch me. I just won't listen to him.' And, he's right. My friend can't touch him, so why should he listen? He's been taught that adults can't hit kids. Knowing that, he will act however he wants. I even had a county sheriff talk to my boys. Same thing. Sat there with their arms crossed with a scowl on their face. Would not say a word. When the Sheriff mentioned they have a boot camp, my oldest shrugged his shoulders. Later he said, 'I don't care if you send me there. They can't touch me so they can't make me do anything.'

Whatever! They haven't been taught adults can't spank them because you do. You just make up excuse after excuse. Your boys are acting like that but yet you can look at them and they know you mean business. Right? Your boys are not this mean! You just want someone to tell you that you need to spank your kids and they are no other way out. I do spank my son and I am not for sure if you should spank your kids because you don't like to be wrong. At all!!

At this point, they have no 'currency' left to take. I have taken it all. They have no game system, no bikes, no toys, no cell phones.

NO LIFE!

I really don't understand you. At first I was trying to give you some good advice but now I see that you are just going to make excuse after excuse. You have a wife that cusses you and your kids out. You said she physically abuses you, tells your boys you have another girlfriend, and you do drugs. You guys split up who really knows how many times. Your boys are way out of control and you have tried everything. You say the only thing that works is spanking them but yet they are still out of control. You and your family needs some help. You and your wife need to change. Your boys are in a situation that they need taken out of. They need taken out of this no matter what! If CPS needs to step in then something needs to happen. Someone needs to stand up for these kids. They need someone who cares about them to do whatever it takes to make things work for them. Like Dr. Phil says someone needs to be the hero. My other advice to you in you need to watch what you post on these boards because you are contradicting yourself badly here!