Topic : Spanking: Useful or Cruel?

I agree that every one has different views and for different reasons and to be perfectly honest I have seen abusers on both sides of the issue, I know parents who have/do abuse their children but have never spanked and vice versa. There are definetly many forms of abuse and because no one is perfect and we all do make mistakes, chances are all parents in one way shape or form may have had abused their child in some way. Not saying intentional becasue any loving and good parent would never purposely harm their child in any way. correct me if I am wrong, but you seem to believe that spankers are abusive parents. I am really just trying to understand your posts, call me a dummy or whatever, but really that is all I am trying to do for I personally respect all peoples views here and in no way trying to put any one down or to justifying abuse. I can only speak for myself and my home, that even though I have given my children a swat on the bottom does not mean I am an abusive parent, I love and respect my children and try very hard to communicate with them, My youngest is only 2 but I do have ways of communicating and getting through to her on issues, It is not unusual for me and my 4 year old to sit down and have a heart to heart talk and to discuss behaviors/choices and all. She has the freedom to express herself in how ever she can but is not aloud to harm another, including herself in the process which if she does, she loses a privelege. Though I do not have a problem with spanking, (a swat on the bottom), I honestly cannot tell you the last time my children has gotten one, becasue I only give a swat to the bottom after the third warning/redirection of certain incidents and I must count my blessings for I have two very well natured girls as I am one of the lucky ones who have easy children (at this point). Just becasue I might disagree with some one on a discipline does not neccessarily mean that I think they are abusing their children, I think the ones who end up with rebellious and kids in trouble (however one wants to word it)are usually those who do not discipline at all or those who are not willing to change techniques in their parenting becasue they are so wanting to be right in their choices. We as parents must put our children as high priority and make it our goal to love and respect them and to help/teach them right from wrong and to help them to grow into good, productive adults and my children are progressing very well. They know they are loved, and cared for and they know that we would never hurt them, they are young but they know when they have been hurt or done wrong, my oldest not too long ago told some one that her mommy never hurts her(don't know what the converstaion was about as I walked in during the conversatiion), she knows she is loved. Both of them are very vocal even at their young ages and believe me would voice it if I was hurting them. I for one will never look at my self as a perfect parent but at least I can look at my self in the mirror at night and be proud of the fact that I am the best parent for my children and they are progressing as they should becasue they are loved and I want the best for them. I do not tolerate violence and when it is against a child, believe me, I feel rage, I personally know what abuse is and how it can affect a person and I will do everything in my power to protect my children. A good parent will raise their children in a loving and caring atmoshere, communicate and discipline in a way that will help the child not harm them and at the same time admit when they have done wrong and even apologize to a child (which persoanlly have done), and be willing to change a technique(which I have) when they sense/know that it is wrong and/or it is useless in helping the child. I personally am not discounting any ones views here for that is what they are, just views/opinions. yes a spanking can turn into abuse but so can putting a child in time out constantly, and the way we speak to our children, even grounding a child from everything all the time can set them up for failure, There has to be balance and communication between child and parent, boundaries and consequences must be set as well and at the same time, all this can happen when there is love and respect in the home and children know when these things exist, My children go to bed happy everynight and as we discuss our day, we talk about the negatives and positives and talk about what we each can do to make things better/right. Children are definetly the smart ones for they are honest and real, and my ears are always opened when it comes to my children.

I put two many messages because I couldn't find them for a while. Are you parents on here

or Dr Phil's staff? Any on here who are opposed to spankings but polite to those who are for?

I am being bullied by abusers(who like screaming from kids)and try to stuff hitting to those

who have seen too much sadism and creaps made by it. I consider it responsible to be against

it and say why in detail. (Depressing I know)But people need support those who know it is bad and

others, are just told it improves children's behavior and not about the real control problems

and destruction from it. Agreeing with everyone is wishy washy. There is a place for anti-spank also.

I personally realize ,that is hard for anyone to survive at all, with the violence legal and illegal

out there. Children aren't for displacing rage and absorbing all that violence. Well

if you don't respond, I Think I won't I've said too much for a  get along type forum.

first of all, no we are not Dr. Phil staff, we are good loving parents coming to the boards for various reasons, some may come for advice while others may come to give some advice, others may come for support as a parent as others may come to debate the issue spanking verses spanking. This board is fairly new right now as they redid the boards but I am sure there will be some one eventually to get on here and will want to debate the subject. I personally have made some friends on these boards regardless of our stand on this issue as well as other issues presented on the Dr. Phil boards. Think me wishy washy all you want for I personally do not care as I am a darn good parent to my children and it doesn't bother me what others think of me and my parenting. I have expressed my views here already,therefore I will not go into more details at this time, but I am the type of person who will be ones friend and try to support other parents the very best that I know how and that is possible without fighting and putting others down and it doesn't mean we have to agree on everything, for we all have our view points as we are all seperate individuals. I personally believe that every parent who comes to these boards are good and sincere parents as who would want to come and talk to a bunch of strangers about their situations and asking for help if they didn't want to get support,advice/develop a friendship with those in the same boat as themselves? and we are all in the same boat here, trying to raise our kids into good productive, successful adults. It isn't a bad thing to disagree and take a stand on what we believe and do not believe but it is also not a bad thing to befriend others even though they do not see things as we do. I have personal friends on both sides of this issue and in all honesty, I see no difference in our kids, they are all normal, good kids learning to live in this crazy world and those kids who come from abusive, non discipline homes are the kids who do not do well. So what, if we all get along, what is wrong with getting along with others even though we don't agree on a topic?! , Just give it a while and some one will eventually get on and want to argue with you, once people realize that the board is back up I am sure some of them will be back.

We are parents, and most of us attempt to be polite to everyone who posts here, whether thay be for or against spanking. That doesn't mean we don't get a little heated here and there when trying to make a point for our side, but in the end we usually can agree to disagree and move on.

 My concern with spanking is that how can you tell your child not to hit or hurt others and then turn around and do it to them.  What kind of message does that send.  You can't do it but I can....I'm telling you that hitting hurts but showing you that it is ok to do it. Confusing!!  There are other non-wishy washy ways to discipline our kids.  How about saying no and sticking to it.  Don't threating with anything you cannot follow through with.  Get in their face and be firm..make sure to make eye contact and explain the situation..now a days people call dcf at the drop of a hat so we need to find other ways to discipline in public.  Not give in and take the easy way out just to keep them quite. Why have parent's become afraid of their kids.  That puts alot of pressure on the child to make decisions that he or she is not able to do. What kind of future will they have.  Remember:  We are raising adults not children.  Thing about the road ahead too.

 Tell your cousin to look up behavior modification strategies on the computer or there are many books.  If she needs professional help then look for a child psychologist..she may need a therapist for herself to deal with all of the "what have I done wrong"  feelings and stress.  Some psychologists have gone so far as to remove everything in the room except the bed (even the sheets) and the child had to "earn" his/her belongings back.  It is tough to diagnose early on.  They usually wait until the school years.  This may sound extreme but there are many versions of it..Please let her know that medication should be used as a LAST resort.  This child has to learn how to control him/herself and be responsible for his/her actions.  It takes time.  I'm sure she's worn out..Tell her also to do something for her self (a bath,walk, read a magazine any thing, paint her nails)..She needs her strength to be there for her child.
She should educate herself on add and adhd because when it comes time she needs to be an advocate for her child and fight for what she knows is right.  I hope this helps.  If I come across any sites I will reply to this message again
Karen

I think a wishy washy parent is some one who wants/bares a child but doesn't discipline or follow through with what they say and do. and may even make excuses for the child.The reason why so many children are so out of control is the lack of discipline, respect and consistency in their upbringings. yes, some children may have a disorder, but the fact still stands that they need discipline and consistency, some children may be harder then others but they still need discipline and consistency. Those people who think I am a wishy washy parent just becasue I don't have a problem with people who give a swat on the bottom, well, that is only an opinion, but at least this wishy washy parent has well mannered children (not perfect) who know the rules and know that they will only be told once to stop the misbehavior (or to do as they are suppose to be doing-whatever the case might be). I can take them any where with out any problems and if there are problems, well, we leave and take care of the situation and they know better then to repeat that action and if they do repeat that action, All I have to do is say, "stop (say the action)or you go to bed(whatever the appropiate discipline is)and they make a decission and no, there are no more chances, one warning and that is it. on rare oaccasions, one might throw a temper tantrum, I walk away, let them do their thing (as long as she/no one else is getting hurt) then we talk and they go sit in time out., sometimes to bed they go. I have two precious little girls who gets many compliments on how happy and socialable they are, they have good self esteem and know that they are loved and cared for, yes little ones know whether they are loved and respected. My oldest wants to be a mommy when she grows up and she wants to be just like her mommy becasue she is the best(her words, not mine). I over heard her say this a while back and she tells her daddy that she loves her mommy, Now that sounds like a wishy washy parent!!!! (kidding-of course) I still say too many parents, especially mothers are too judgemental of othre parents (mothers) regardless of their stand on this issue. I guess ones definition of wishy washy may be different then others, but who cares! We are all in the same boat here, raising our little ones to become good, happy, productive adults and I can honestly say that my husband and I are doing exactly that. Of course we are not perfect parents but we certainly are good parents and the best for our children. Parenting is not an easy job but it certainly is rewarding and I for one am a blessed mom.

I think it's cruel to spank little kids,or kids at all, I was spanked when i was little but the child wellfare took my sisters and me away from our parents and placed us in fostercare, and I'm happy about that.

a swat on the bottom is not abuse, leaving bruises and such is, so I am assuming that you were abused as a child as it is not against the law to "spank", of course there are those who will go by their own aganda but the real abusers seem to get by with it, believe me, I know. I was abused as a child and it sure the heck wasn't a pat on the bottom, and guess what, NOTHING was done about it and this was happening in a "trusted", "well to do" foster home and I spent 10 years of my childhood in this home. Don't talk to me about how "great" the sysytem is. It sucks and this happened over 30 years ago and I know several families that the system has screwed over because of "personal agendas". One was about a couple of of scratches which happened at the sitters and guess who got blamed and their kids taken away, it sure the heck wasn't the sitter and nothing was asked about the dog what so ever. I worked for 14 years working in the inner city and you would be surprised what REAL abuse really is. There are many children ABUSED in this society who fall through the cracks and your concerned over a parent who gives their child a swat on the bottom. Big difference between that and abuse. I know many children who are spanked and they are perfectly fine in all aspects of their lives and vice versa but I also know those who have never had a swat ont he bottom and they have issues as well as vice versa. Abuse is not a matter of whether a child is spanked or not, it is a matter of how the parent treats their children. I personally would have been better off without the state getting involved, I was never ever touched by my real parents, a littel neglected but never touched in any way, shape or form, not even a swat ont he bottom, and I was taken away and put in a worse situation and I know that people were awasre of it becasue I over heard conversations. Children services is not the greatest organization out there, yes they have ahelped a few families but over all, they need much much more work and they have a ways to go. Time to go after the REAL abusers, not just becasuse they are spankers. I have a friend whi is a social worker and though she likes her job most of the time, she has seen many flaws in it and when she does, she documents and sends it to who ever, maybe others in that system should start taking a stand and help make the system set priorities and get out there and listen to the complaints, check into them and don't base the situation on opunions and agendas but on what is "REALLY" going on in the home. I personally am tired of hearing about dead children becasue the system didn't listen to a complaint but then when I see innocent parents get screwed over, that makes me angry as well. Any way, ther is my piece about our system Yes, there are good workers in the system just liket here are goodt eachers in the school system but it doesn't mean it isn't flawed and what's the gaurentee that one is going to get the good one, false accusations and found guilty can happen to any one becasue that is how our system works and in the process, there are children getting hurt and dying because of the real thing. so, especially as good loving parents, we all need to be careful on how we lable other parents and not accuse just becasue we don't agree with a technique, I know good parents who spank as well as who don't and they are all well, developed, functioning families. I know a family who used to leave their littel ones, (still in diapers) locked up in their room all day, they would leave the door opened but there was a gate up and they couldn't get out, the only times they were out is when they were eating and going laces, very rare did I ever see those kids out playing, that is abuse! and they never once spanked. This family is all split up now as it was/is a very disfunctional home and they are now fighting over the kids which neither one of them have custody as the kids are staying woth two sets of grandparents, I will not go into details but children services were called before the next two were born while the two older were littel and nothing was done about it and now there are four innocent children being screwed over. Now, what a wonderful system we have! Believe me, I know what abuse is and I for one will not cover it up and I will report any that I know of and again, a swat on the bottom has nothing to do with it.

There is a difference between children  who are out of control due to lack of discipline (this is when nothing is done because it is easier to let them get their way) and children who are out of control due to a disorder.  You are lucky that your discipline techniques work on your children.  Some children need much more intense discipline styles and it can be exhausting and stressful. This mom needs to work ten times harder than you do to maintain control.  She is out there asking for help and not just letting the child get away with it. And certainley not making excuses for the child.You need to educate your self on special needs children before saying that this parent's child is out of control due to being wishy washy. (or that is what it seems like you are trying to say with out actually saying it) Talk about being disrespectful.  Sounds like you lack confidence in your parenting style and let others determine what kind of parent you are.  Just look at your children you  can see what you are doing is working.  I am a parent too and work very hard to be constistent with my disciplining and in teaching my son to be respectful to others.  You are right we all want what is best for our children. So don't rush to judgement before you know the whole story. I'm sure you would want someone to have compassion for you if you were asking for help.