Topic : 08/23 My Fiancé is a Stalker

well wouldnt you say your 50% at fault ? you kept your kids in that enviroment ? 

it shure looks to me you made a terrible decision and can be blamed for half that problem. instead of pointing fingers you should have been taking action and opened you eyes. sorry but I cant feel bad for someone who decides to say for the sake of the children when the children are at risk. 

not smart. 

Yes, we teach people how to treat us, (for the most part ),  that is to say, if they are rational and mature people who respond rationally and maturely to negative consequences, then we might be successful at teaching them how they should treat us, (and by extension, what we wouldn't tolerate). 

In cases of abuse, however, it seems to me that it is not so much about teaching the person that we won't allow ourselves to be treated a certain way, as it is about the need to protect ourselves from the threat, by LEAVING.  Whether or not you are teaching them a darned thing at this point is irrelevant -- your need was to leave -- period.  Of course, by leaving we may accomplish both goals.  So, I agree that  Amber should have gotten out a looooooong time ago as this is the only rational course of action when dealing with one's safety.  This may have taught him that he couldn't treat her that way, but whether or not that lesson would have translated to his subsequent relationships is up for debate. 

Regardless, Amber needed to think of herself, her safety,  and leave.   Now the unfortunate reality is that it is not just about her anymore -- it's about protecting her child.  I could go on and on and on with reprimands to Amber about her handling of this crazy and unhealthy relationship thus far, but that is all water under the bridge.  IMO, this IS a no-brainer.  This IS black and white.  The villain IS Ken.  (Put aside for a moment all the psycho-babble about WHY he does what he does - his behavior is all the evidence you need to admit to in order to know this.  The reasons WHY he behaves a certain way don't change that he DOES behave a certain way.)  Amber is the ENABLER with MANY issues of her own.  I know (before you make this counterpoint) that without her complacency he couldn't be abusive to her, but do not confuse the two levels of responsibility here. 

P.S.  Even women who DO leave EARLY on in the relationship (so as to not tolerate bad behavior )have been physically hurt by the men they leave.  So even women who wouldn't tolerate the beginnings of such behavior get hurt.  In your mind, would this change in circumstance constitute the guy being a villain?  If not, what would?  Does the woman have to be completely free of sin to be considered innocent? (And obviously, NO person is an angel, so not being an angel is not a pertinent point to make...) 

Dear Dr. Phil, 

I think it was very "nice" that you offered this creep help. Hope it works out. But why weren't you all over that girl? Does she realize that her and her child could end up being a murder statistic? Obviously not. I was married to a person of that nature. I got out for fear of my children and my life. And, the thought of raising my two daughters in that environment was just alarming to say the least. Why didn't you offer her some help? She doesn't get it either! She does not realize that all these guys want is to treat you the way they want, and THAT IS ALL TO THEIR AGENDA! They won't ever be different. And above all else, he cheated a lot! I watched her reaction, she chuckled! That girl needs more help than he does if you ask me. She, and more above, her BABY, is in real danger, and from seeing her today, she has no clue. I think you should have concentrated more on her than on the creep. 

I hope she never sees him again. She can expect nothing but tragedy with him. I just hope it's not the baby that gets really hurt; and by the way, she is fooling herself if she thinks he won't hurt his baby, HE WILL. 

Rebecca 

Dr. Phil, today's show was great. You hit on a subject that is really HOT these days. I agree that Amber should get away from Ken. He is an emotional train wreck and needs intensive therapy, now, before he hurts that precious baby or Amber and her mom. I was so relieved to hear you offer to provide help for Ken. I think he is salvageable if he gets the help he needs. Right now, he is a psychological nightmare and will need a lot of therapy to get to a point where he can be trusted and a father to that darling little girl. I am a former Psychiatric Nurse and I've seen these kinds of cases, where all hope seems lost. But, you and I know that the right kind of help, in the right milieu, can work wonders. I learned to never give up hope. And, I've learned that prayer is an awesome tool, too. Help and prayer will get Ken to a point where he will be a productive citizen and a good father to that little girl. Thanks, Dr. Phil, offering help to Ken was the very best thing you could do in this situation. I believe that Amber should be in therapy, too, to learn how to deal with what she has gone through.  Never give up!  It's our duty as healthcare professionals to help where we can, I truly believe that we are obligated to help when and where we can. Thanks again, I believe that you helped save Ken and Amber and their child today, and Ken will be appreciative and healthy when he overcomes his problems. Keep us informed.     

Would your heart go out to him enough to sacrifice your daughter to him? 

With or without viewing the show, if someone is said to be abusive, (unless the show is lying about this), you wouldn't need to see the show to know that one should not be with an abusive person - regardless of WHY they are abusive.  The WHY's only matter in counseling, so as to know how to help (maybe) change behavior. You don't always need to the WHY of things to know those things are wrong, and to RUN. 

I think the woman is playing games with him trying to control him and causing him to get angry with her, there are always two sides to every story and she has known for a long time about his temper but chooses to continue a relationship with him.  I think it's a game with her and if he ever gets control of his anger she probably won't want him anymore . She likes playing the danger game.  

how old is Ken ? cause he doesnt look that old to me. it took me 11 years before I accepted help. ken has not laid a hand on her or their daughter and he isnt a killer. dont crucify him before he has commited a crime. 

you comparing your situation to theirs is comparing apples to oranges. nothing to compare. we are talking degrees and his is not at a terrible point yet. what was the name of the show ?  stalker?   when dr. phil calls it "striking wife" than maybe we look at it differently. dr. phil seems to have more compasion and faith than the ones abused here. lets not get to personaly about it when it really is a much much different situation. she didnt seem very abused to me and seems like a very smart girl. 

one thing I hate about these show and other talk shows. the man cheats, abuses (and its a bad thing) but, the woman does it and woman cheer. such a double standard.  

if it were up to all you woman all us men would be 10ft in the ground and the woman who do wrong also, would get passes everytime.  not all men are beyond help.  

I agree 100% with Dr. Phil on this one. As bad as Ken's actions were I could not help but feel that Amber was actually causing some of his behavior. And as Dr. Phil said, enjoying it. I can only assume that Amber knew of Ken's abuse. Knew the insecurity and the bottons to push and even the responses pushing those buttons would elicit. 

I was very happy to hear her admit to it. 

Now I am NOT trying to be overly hard on her and certainly not forgiving Ken for his behavior. But to abuse the abused and then attempt to put all the blame on Ken, was only proving that she enjoys manipulating him. Knowing he wants to be with her but yet pushing him away, playing cat and mouse with his child. Or should I use the carrot and the stick. And then sit there and act completely blamless was wrong. 

I give her credit for admiting to it. But she needs to think about her part in this as well. 

I applaud Dr. Phil for his offer to help Ken!!! I'll even say "Thank You Dr. Phil." And as Ken goes through this "change", I would hope that Amber also gets help. She admits to having a control issue as well. And before they can possibly be a loving, happy couple, they both need to come to terms with these issues. 

To Ken, I would say this. As a 50 year old survivor of abuse myself, I can tell you that Dr. Phil is absolutly correct. We can not change what's happened to us. We can not change the past. But when it comes to our lives, we DO have control over our repsonse to what happens. We have a choice in what manner we respond to situations and experiences. And Ken, as you will learn, choosing the correct responses, reacting in a dignafied mannor, respecting all, will in the end make you proud. Proud of yourself and hopefully, proud of your wife and your child. And won't it be wonderful when you do not pass on to your child the behaviors you now have and seek to rid yourself of. Teaching your child(ren) how to properly respond to life's difficulties. 

I wish you the very best Ken. Listen to Dr. Phil and turn your life around. For yourself first. Then for your 'family' and for anyone else whom you may encounter in the future. I pray that you will seek out that person who IS within you that can love yourself, that knows that it wasn't your fault, and that you believe it to your very soul. And I would pray that you can even forgive the person(s) who abused you. Not so much for their sake but for yours because anger and hate will only continue to slowly destroy you, not 'them'. 

And finally, I would say that if you truly feel that you don't have any friends, you are wrong!!! I would be one of many who I'm sure would be happy to count you among their friends. I would / DO give Dr. Phil permission to give you my email address if you'd ever wish to communicate. I am not an expert but I have "been there". Know that you are not alone and that their are many wishing, hopeing, and praying for a happy outcome for you. 

Amber and Ken, may God bring Peace to your lifes. And with Dr. Phil's help, may your child be blessed with 2 wonderful parents who truly love her and each other!!! 

Richard