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Topic : Too Much Discipline?

Number of Replies: 73
New Messages This Week: 0
Last Reply On:
Created on : Friday, September 15, 2006, 04:06:31 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Do you and your spouse, partner or ex argue over how much discipline is acceptable? Where do you draw the line? Does your child complain about you being over protective? Share your stories and give and get advice from other parents here.

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April 18, 2007, 3:27 pm CDT

13 Year Old and Alcohol

Quote From: janefrances

How do you discipline a teen to prevent them from abusing alchohol?? Am I overreacting and do teens need to 'experiment' ? my 13 yr daughter has shown an increasing interest in alchohol (we were just on hloiday and she kept asking for drinks and managed to get some older boys to buy her some) Just found out she and her friends are arranging to take alchohol to parties. and talking as if this a regular thing - "where are you getting yours from?" I found this out by see an MSN message on her phone so I shouldnt have been prying?? How can I talk to her without her shutting down on me for not trusting her. She has always been a sensible girl. They are going to a party tomorrow where they are arranging to do this- should I just turn up and catch them, should I make sure she comes back after the party and smelll her breath, I have tried talking and she just gets abusive. My husband and I have given her a lot of freedom allowing her to stay at friends at the weekend and we always feel she comes back with an attitude - should we reduce this freedom?? How do you draw the boundaries without creating a teenager determined to break them, and retain their love and respect. I truly fear for my daughter and despair at her motives for needing alchohol - she is a bright and beautiful girl. Am I being over reactive and is this just something that will pass....?? Is the only way to remove peer pressure to remove the peers.

It's called accountability!  The 13 year old is breaking the law when she is drinking alcohol.  Look, this is tough.... talk to her.  Give her examples of what can happen to her when she drinks under age.  You have every right to remove her privacy door to her room... or any other room where she thinks she can hide the truth from you. 

 

I caught my daughter at a party where the kids were drinking alcohol.  This might sound really cruel but I called the police on the entire bunch!  IT'S BREAKING THE LAW to serve alcohol to anyone under the age of legal (per state). 

 

You don't have to prance around this issue!  Make it clear to her what your intentions are when it comes to her drinking alcohol at any age other than legal. 

 
April 18, 2007, 7:06 pm CDT

i could not beleave it!

Yes I'm shocked on all the abuse and hurt that goes on in children

 

, i cant believe that parents are abusing there own children there flesh and blood

parents and moms are god in the eyes of a child ''why have them then hurt them''!

what really got me was on Monday show the show on saving grace

well what can i say ........

if that was me i would have got up and made a seen pry even went to jail!

i commend Dr Phil the look in his eyes was that of a lion ready to make a kill! he just sat there with such strength sh%&^%T i would of went mad!

i dint understand why he didn't go off more i new he wanted to!

or how the parents of this pore girl were able to sit there and her all the b-s and remain calm , gosh i wish i had that stance!

 i would have went sire crazy  would of had a jerry springer moment ! I'm wondering how Robin felt of the whole thing i don't care whom you are brother sister auntie, friend, mom,dad etc if you harm my child  the gates of hell will open up on you ! i almost wanted to slap the dad! i don't know why he did not react!

my prays and dreams of good things go out to grace!

Rebecca

 
April 19, 2007, 1:45 am CDT

Learn to make the DISTINCTION between discipline and Abuse, PLEASE!!

When are we going to realise that discipline and boundaries are what makes us sane, sound productive members of society! Spare the rod and spoil the child! The rod of discipline is used to teach not inflict pain. The mere fact that it does is because they, the children, learn that their actions have consequences, severe consequences!

It is the ridiculous so called "scientific approach" to child rearing and discipline espoused by psychology and psychiatry that is causing this ridiculous and ever exploding problem. Parents have NO rights anymore. Government has removed them from us, children have more rights now.

Why do you think Columbine and now the new college shooting in Blacksburg's Virginia Tech have happened? Because the parents could care less what their children do, as long as they leave them alone. Children get depressed when their parents are absent! We are absent when we give them money and send them to the mall with the comment "have a good time"! When we leave them alone in their rooms to get into the internet and other solitary pursuits like playstation and exbox games!

It will not surprise me to learn in the next few days that Cho Seung-Hui, like the two from Columbine, has been on some mind bending medication from a very early age because some doctor said he had ADHD or ODD or some other such STUPID affliction!! The only disease he might have had was bad choice! And that not his own, but his mothers! The bad choice of doctor by this mother. A doctor (another dubious distinction) that told her he was suffering from some disorder or another that NO_ONE can medically PROVE at all! The medical definition of a disease holds that an abnormality exists in the patient somewhere!

Abscence of abnolmality = normal = no disease = NO NEED FOR ANY medication.

Introduce medication of any sort and there you have the FIRST abnormailty!

We send our kids to school where they are told "Don't do Drugs!" They walk out the room from the lecture and queue up outside the nurses station for their mood suppressing prescribed medication!!!

All of this could be avoided if we, THE PARENTS, took the time to discipline the children we have been blessed with by using the rod of correction on the seat of learning, their rump! Foolishness is bound up in the heart of the child. The rod of correction will drive it out. Do not withhold the rod of correction from your child for he will hate you for it.

Columbine and Blacksburg are our children screaming out "Please, give me some boundaries and discipline!"

 
April 19, 2007, 5:46 pm CDT

Too Much Discipline?

Quote From: alijay1

When are we going to realise that discipline and boundaries are what makes us sane, sound productive members of society! Spare the rod and spoil the child! The rod of discipline is used to teach not inflict pain. The mere fact that it does is because they, the children, learn that their actions have consequences, severe consequences!

It is the ridiculous so called "scientific approach" to child rearing and discipline espoused by psychology and psychiatry that is causing this ridiculous and ever exploding problem. Parents have NO rights anymore. Government has removed them from us, children have more rights now.

Why do you think Columbine and now the new college shooting in Blacksburg's Virginia Tech have happened? Because the parents could care less what their children do, as long as they leave them alone. Children get depressed when their parents are absent! We are absent when we give them money and send them to the mall with the comment "have a good time"! When we leave them alone in their rooms to get into the internet and other solitary pursuits like playstation and exbox games!

It will not surprise me to learn in the next few days that Cho Seung-Hui, like the two from Columbine, has been on some mind bending medication from a very early age because some doctor said he had ADHD or ODD or some other such STUPID affliction!! The only disease he might have had was bad choice! And that not his own, but his mothers! The bad choice of doctor by this mother. A doctor (another dubious distinction) that told her he was suffering from some disorder or another that NO_ONE can medically PROVE at all! The medical definition of a disease holds that an abnormality exists in the patient somewhere!

Abscence of abnolmality = normal = no disease = NO NEED FOR ANY medication.

Introduce medication of any sort and there you have the FIRST abnormailty!

We send our kids to school where they are told "Don't do Drugs!" They walk out the room from the lecture and queue up outside the nurses station for their mood suppressing prescribed medication!!!

All of this could be avoided if we, THE PARENTS, took the time to discipline the children we have been blessed with by using the rod of correction on the seat of learning, their rump! Foolishness is bound up in the heart of the child. The rod of correction will drive it out. Do not withhold the rod of correction from your child for he will hate you for it.

Columbine and Blacksburg are our children screaming out "Please, give me some boundaries and discipline!"

"It is the ridiculous so called "scientific approach" to child rearing and discipline espoused by psychology and psychiatry that is causing this ridiculous and ever exploding problem."

Really...LOL, where is your evidence of this?

"Why do you think Columbine and now the new college shooting in Blacksburg's Virginia Tech have happened?"


Because these people suffered from mental illness. Period. The end. You cannot discipline mental illness away.

"It will not surprise me to learn in the next few days that Cho Seung-Hui, like the two from Columbine, has been on some mind bending medication from a very early age because some doctor said he had ADHD or ODD or some other such STUPID affliction!! "

Do you have any idea how offensive you are being or how ignorant that sounds? ADD, ADHD, OCD  are all very REAL illnesses. (Btw, no one has said that these are illnesses that caused these shooting...this newest shooter seems to be schizophrenic. Is that a "stupid" affliction too?) The brain is an ORGAN and it is subject to illness just as the heart is, just as the lungs are, just as the liver is.

So basically, you seem to be saying that if these shooters were beaten by their parents then they never would have killed anyone...right?

It's odd...my daughter has never once been hit, is rarely yelled at, and is an extremely well behaved intelligent little girl. On the other hand I know a few kids in our apartment complex who are spanked and their behavior is horrendous. So much for you theory huh?
 
April 20, 2007, 2:09 am CDT

Emotions are dangerous where discipline is involved.

Quote From: penny_lady

"It is the ridiculous so called "scientific approach" to child rearing and discipline espoused by psychology and psychiatry that is causing this ridiculous and ever exploding problem."

Really...LOL, where is your evidence of this?

"Why do you think Columbine and now the new college shooting in Blacksburg's Virginia Tech have happened?"


Because these people suffered from mental illness. Period. The end. You cannot discipline mental illness away.

"It will not surprise me to learn in the next few days that Cho Seung-Hui, like the two from Columbine, has been on some mind bending medication from a very early age because some doctor said he had ADHD or ODD or some other such STUPID affliction!! "

Do you have any idea how offensive you are being or how ignorant that sounds? ADD, ADHD, OCD  are all very REAL illnesses. (Btw, no one has said that these are illnesses that caused these shooting...this newest shooter seems to be schizophrenic. Is that a "stupid" affliction too?) The brain is an ORGAN and it is subject to illness just as the heart is, just as the lungs are, just as the liver is.

So basically, you seem to be saying that if these shooters were beaten by their parents then they never would have killed anyone...right?

It's odd...my daughter has never once been hit, is rarely yelled at, and is an extremely well behaved intelligent little girl. On the other hand I know a few kids in our apartment complex who are spanked and their behavior is horrendous. So much for you theory huh?

My dear penny_lady allow me the freedom of my opinion and the right to express it before you string me up, as much as I am prepared to allow you to express yours. Lynch mobs went out a long time ago.

 

Really...LOL, where is your evidence of this?

 

If it is your contention that there is evidence, then bring it. As I stated, there is NO medical proof, no procedure to prove that the so-called disorders and diseases espoused by these people calling themselves doctors are anything but subjective, best guess scenarios. I challenge you to bring a medical professional that can medically prove your contention that these "abnormalities" exist.

The DSM, their bible of diagnosis, is merely a conglomeration of personal opinions and conjecture put together by a committee back in the 1950’s and subsequnet with each upgrade. And each subsequent edition has added more and more “diseases and disorders” to the list. Each one more ridiculous than the last. You are welcome to continue to believe that they are the saviours of modern man…. I choose not to see my family swallowed up in their lies.

If I am being offensive it is because you see that as truth and my opinion clearly is not yours. For thousands of years mankind has done things using the Bible as their guide. As soon as educational psychology and psychology in general began to punt their form of a “scientific approach” to child rearing, based I might add on animal experiments done on rats, and we swallowed their line of malarkey, is when things begin to go haywire! And so we then got the call to remove discipline from schools… take away the cane and today we see the results.

 

It's odd...my daughter has never once been hit, is rarely yelled at, and is an extremely well behaved intelligent little girl. On the other hand I know a few kids in our apartment complex who are spanked and their behavior is horrendous. So much for you theory huh?

 

Please read my headline again… make the distinction between discipline and ABUSE, please!! Discipline is done in a loving and caring manner with a reason for the discipline. Abuse is clearly not! Dumbing our kids down with medication is ABUSE!!

 

So basically, you seem to be saying that if these shooters were beaten by their parents then they never would have killed anyone...right

 

I despise abusers and would NEVER condone or encourage parents to beat their children. Move your emotion to one side and read my post once more and see that I said discipline is applied with the rod of correction. Nowhere did I say anything about "beating" our children. Again, separate the discipline issue from the ABUSE issue please!! They are two distinct and far removed issues. Abusers do not know what discipline is, they themselves lack it. It is called Self discipline!

 

I quote Dr Fred Baughman MD here regarding Blacksburg and Cho: "Cho Seung-Hui, I have heard, has long been silent, sullen and disconnected, said by psychiatry to be "autistic" whatever that means.  It is a term applied to literally millions of children with no regard to how damaging the term might be, with no regard to the fact that this term itself portrays nothing specific or understandable, scientific or medical."

 

 

 
April 20, 2007, 12:18 pm CDT

Too Much Discipline?

Quote From: alijay1

My dear penny_lady allow me the freedom of my opinion and the right to express it before you string me up, as much as I am prepared to allow you to express yours. Lynch mobs went out a long time ago.

 

Really...LOL, where is your evidence of this?

 

If it is your contention that there is evidence, then bring it. As I stated, there is NO medical proof, no procedure to prove that the so-called disorders and diseases espoused by these people calling themselves doctors are anything but subjective, best guess scenarios. I challenge you to bring a medical professional that can medically prove your contention that these "abnormalities" exist.

The DSM, their bible of diagnosis, is merely a conglomeration of personal opinions and conjecture put together by a committee back in the 1950s and subsequnet with each upgrade. And each subsequent edition has added more and more diseases and disorders to the list. Each one more ridiculous than the last. You are welcome to continue to believe that they are the saviours of modern man. I choose not to see my family swallowed up in their lies.

If I am being offensive it is because you see that as truth and my opinion clearly is not yours. For thousands of years mankind has done things using the Bible as their guide. As soon as educational psychology and psychology in general began to punt their form of a scientific approach to child rearing, based I might add on animal experiments done on rats, and we swallowed their line of malarkey, is when things begin to go haywire! And so we then got the call to remove discipline from schools take away the cane and today we see the results.

 

It's odd...my daughter has never once been hit, is rarely yelled at, and is an extremely well behaved intelligent little girl. On the other hand I know a few kids in our apartment complex who are spanked and their behavior is horrendous. So much for you theory huh?

 

Please read my headline again make the distinction between discipline and ABUSE, please!! Discipline is done in a loving and caring manner with a reason for the discipline. Abuse is clearly not! Dumbing our kids down with medication is ABUSE!!

 

So basically, you seem to be saying that if these shooters were beaten by their parents then they never would have killed anyone...right

 

I despise abusers and would NEVER condone or encourage parents to beat their children. Move your emotion to one side and read my post once more and see that I said discipline is applied with the rod of correction. Nowhere did I say anything about "beating" our children. Again, separate the discipline issue from the ABUSE issue please!! They are two distinct and far removed issues. Abusers do not know what discipline is, they themselves lack it. It is called Self discipline!

 

I quote Dr Fred Baughman MD here regarding Blacksburg and Cho: "Cho Seung-Hui, I have heard, has long been silent, sullen and disconnected, said by psychiatry to be "autistic" whatever that means.  It is a term applied to literally millions of children with no regard to how damaging the term might be, with no regard to the fact that this term itself portrays nothing specific or understandable, scientific or medical."

 

 

"My dear penny_lady allow me the freedom of my opinion and the right to express it before you string me up, as much as I am prepared to allow you to express yours. Lynch mobs went out a long time ago"

How is me giving my opinion a "lynch mob"...you're being quite sensitive here aren't you?

I asked you where you evidence of something VERY specific was. Go back and read what I quoted before saying that....follow conversation.



 
April 26, 2007, 5:26 pm CDT

Too Much Discipline?

Quote From: alijay1

So you don't believe that medical doctors who specialize in Psychiatry are "real" doctors? 

 

NO they are not. If they really were than they would know that an abnormality needs to be present for a disease/disorder to exist and subsequently require medication. They train the same way that doctors do for the first few years and then "specialise" in psychiatry for a few more years, and conveniently forget the training they had and the oath they took. Or maybe they have been trained by the almighty Dollar to take no notice of the fact and do it for the improvement of their bank balances. Many do it. In fact, CHADD, the so called parents support group for parents with ADD/ADHD children, was set up using drug company donations and given the line that they should educate parents to spread the word and so unknowingly they helped to drive up the sales of Methalphenidate (Ritalin, I'm sure you will have heard of it.) and as a result their profits too.

 

I can go on and on with a list of PROVEN medical diagnoses of the brain

 

Alright then, give me the proof, quantifiable, medical journal published fact and accepted medical proof, that these so called diseases exist. Not neuro transmitter malfunctions, medical proof of a procedure that can and has been done that medically proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ADD/ADHD actually does exist?

 

To quote a pre-eminant doctor of neurology and avid anti ADHD campaigner Dr F Baughmann MD, "They (Psychiatry) made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD." You can find this and much more on his website www.adhdfraud.org

 

Oh and no I don't take any medication. I am healthy and have no need for any foreign chemicals. I eat properly and excercise regularly. I do not have a weight problem nor do I smoke.

 

Your argument that one needs to take medication for other organs in order to restore them to a state of health holds no water. It is however, the typical argument put forward to encourage people to go the route of using any substance that is harmful for them... telling them, "it won't hurt you, you'll feel better afterwards..." sounds awfully like a certain snake saying something along the lines of  "Did God really say that? Surely not? All he meant was ..." followed of course by any justification he wanted to use...

 

If anyone is at all sad, then may I suggest that you cast a glance in your mirror more often.

 This has to be a joke!
 
April 26, 2007, 6:14 pm CDT

Controrversial

Quote From: alijay1

So you don't believe that medical doctors who specialize in Psychiatry are "real" doctors? 

 

NO they are not. If they really were than they would know that an abnormality needs to be present for a disease/disorder to exist and subsequently require medication. They train the same way that doctors do for the first few years and then "specialise" in psychiatry for a few more years, and conveniently forget the training they had and the oath they took. Or maybe they have been trained by the almighty Dollar to take no notice of the fact and do it for the improvement of their bank balances. Many do it. In fact, CHADD, the so called parents support group for parents with ADD/ADHD children, was set up using drug company donations and given the line that they should educate parents to spread the word and so unknowingly they helped to drive up the sales of Methalphenidate (Ritalin, I'm sure you will have heard of it.) and as a result their profits too.

 

I can go on and on with a list of PROVEN medical diagnoses of the brain

 

Alright then, give me the proof, quantifiable, medical journal published fact and accepted medical proof, that these so called diseases exist. Not neuro transmitter malfunctions, medical proof of a procedure that can and has been done that medically proves beyond a shadow of a doubt that ADD/ADHD actually does exist?

 

To quote a pre-eminant doctor of neurology and avid anti ADHD campaigner Dr F Baughmann MD, "They (Psychiatry) made a list of the most common symptoms of emotional discomfiture of children; those which bother teachers and parents most, and in a stroke that could not be more devoid of science or Hippocratic motive--termed them a 'disease.' Twenty five years of research, not deserving of the term 'research.,' has failed to validate ADD/ADHD as a disease. Tragically--the "epidemic" having grown from 500 thousand in 1985 to between 5 and 7 million today--this remains the state of the 'science' of ADHD." You can find this and much more on his website www.adhdfraud.org

 

Oh and no I don't take any medication. I am healthy and have no need for any foreign chemicals. I eat properly and excercise regularly. I do not have a weight problem nor do I smoke.

 

Your argument that one needs to take medication for other organs in order to restore them to a state of health holds no water. It is however, the typical argument put forward to encourage people to go the route of using any substance that is harmful for them... telling them, "it won't hurt you, you'll feel better afterwards..." sounds awfully like a certain snake saying something along the lines of  "Did God really say that? Surely not? All he meant was ..." followed of course by any justification he wanted to use...

 

If anyone is at all sad, then may I suggest that you cast a glance in your mirror more often.

ADD/ADHD is a controversial topic in that some  contend that it does not exsist and some contend that it does. The reson it is so controversial is that they have not done enough research, to determine the exact causes of, what the medical profession terms, Attention deficit disorder.

What the scientist have been able to determine thus far in their research is,that ADD is nerobiological in basis, and possibly genetics.

They have also concluded that Hyper activity in children may be a result of excessive slow wave or theta activity in the brain.

They have also found that children that have been properly diagnosed with ADD/ADHD have lower levels of lower levels of Dopamine, a nerotransmitter involved with the mental and emotional functioning.

Neroimaging has also shown that there are differences between children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD most significanlty in the pre frontal cortex.

They have found that children diagnosed with ADD/ADHD have smaller brains most notably in the pre frontal cortex, and cerebellum.

These children also dispaly maladative behaviors that clearly show they are not functioning on a level of a child who is developing normaly.

These scientists, Doctors, and researchers clearly see that there is an abnormality, an abnormality is present.

I certainly am not going to write out a thesis, these are just some of the facts, that they have been able to determine.

Proof is being demanded, well they are working on it. that does not change the fact that there is an abnormality and that it is serious, and is affecting the quality of life of many individuals and families.

The first case of ADD was medically diagnosed way back in 1902, this is not a new issue, it has only recently within the past few years had more recognition becaue of the media.

Saying something does not exist  because someone not convinced is foolish.

"There is a principle which is a bar against all information, which is proof against all arguments and which cannot fail to keep a man in everlasting ignorance - that principle is contempt prior to investigation."

- Herbert Spencer

If these men and women stop the research and turn their backs, saying there is not a problem, many children and familys will suffer for that foolish notion that if we ignor it it does not exist.

Do I think that there is no potential of misdiagnosing, over medicating, or unethical practices by some professionals. Absolutly not, but that does not change the fact that many of these professionals are practicing ethicaly, and doing much needed research, and treating and diagnosing their patients correctly.

Trying to beat scientific facts and research into submission with religious connotation is ridiculous. Making a broad statement that individuals don't need medication to restore them to a state of health, because the one saying it is healthy, is misguided

You are blessed that you are healthy and have no need for medications, however for many many individuals they are not so blessed. You can not use your own health and well being as an example as to why ill individuals should not take medication.

I most certainly am open to a healthy debate, but arguing and debating are two very diferent things.

 

 
April 30, 2007, 10:33 am CDT

HAVE YOU EVER?

DO YOU HAVE ANY CHILDREN? I do and my son has A.D.H.D. and its like night and day when he doesnt take his medicine. I use to hate the fact of medecating my child, thought it was the worst thing ever, but when I wittnessed him change,[ FOR THE BETTER], I became a believer.. He is now doing great in school, amazing at home, it even feels like home again. So unless you have been [PERSONALLY]  in some one like myselfs shoes, then YOU HAVE NO PLACE  TELLING POEPLE  THAT IT ISNT A REAL DISEASE. Mel
 
April 30, 2007, 7:09 pm CDT

Too Much Discipline?

i have a 8 yr old and a 6 yr old. I am wondering and needing some help on the discipline topic! My kids are at each others throat all the time. I am so stressed out right now i have tried sticker charts, i have tried the if your good for 3 days and you do what your told and no fighting we will go to the store and you can pick out something that you want. NOTHING seems to work . So what i have tried for discipline is yeah i used to spank there butts (that doesnt work) but i stopped that. Then it was time out.. Now i make them march in place for 5 min or write sentences and then when there done 10 min later there right back doing it again. I know they are just kids but i need some new ideas i want to knip this in the butt b4 they get to much older and i really have problems!!

 

Thanks in advance

Stacy

 
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