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Topic : 12/25 Divorcing the Family

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Created on : Thursday, October 05, 2006, 04:44:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/12/06) When you lose control of your kids and household, is it ever possible to get it back? Peggy was so fed up with her 17-year-old twin boys' behavior –- their yelling, tantrums, cursing, disrespect, fighting -- and the resulting strain on her marriage that she arrived at a radical solution: Divorce one of her sons from the family. However, when Peggy filed the paperwork to emancipate her son, the courts turned her down, leaving him in her care until age 18. Can Dr. Phil convince Peggy and her husband to accept responsibility for their deteriorating home situation? Can he inspire the teens to help calm the chaos? Or, is divorcing a family member a viable last-ditch option? Tell us what you think!

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December 26, 2006, 7:25 am CST

12/25 Divorcing the Family

Quote From: fixitcr

      I get so tired of seeing this same theme, more or less, played out in family after family, here, there and all over this country, children rebelling against their parents with such anger and vehemence that the parents can't seem to cope.  My children are both adults now, one 41 and one 38, and I just had to have the, "you both act like adolescent children from time to time," talk with one of them again on the phone the other day. 

      It, (your control over them), has to start  when they are born, not when they reach an age of reason, (that may never happen), and it ends when one of you dies, them or you. 

      We started to lose control of our children when Dr. Benjamin Spock wrote his book about childhood and parenting, and women went to work enmasse. 

       A family is not a single parent raising one, two or a dozen children, a family is a mother and a father working together as a unit, raising children to be productive, respectable, compassionate, loving adults, so that they can raise their children the same way. 

       If children are not taught at a very early age, that their parents are to be respected, and feared, they will eventually wind up in the same situation as these kids.  Children today feel that there are no real consequences for inappropriate actions.  There probably weren't any when they were young and now they don't fear anything.  What a shame....

        

I agree with you that the respect must always be there with childen, it is best instilled in them.

In a grocery store alone I can't believe some teens mouths, like making statements about what they want with demands of intitlement, some restaurants have even made separate areas because of children misbehaving disrupting so many other guests on a regualr bases.

 

I respectfully disagree a family is only with both parents though.  My Father died when I was very young, my Grandfather was a very stern male role mofel even though he wasn't always there.

I know of families whose children don't lift a finger in the home, friends are thier priority.

I do think far too many parents have thier own agendas and social activities that rule over being a parent first. 

You hit the nail on the head: too many do not have consequences for thier actions growing up.

But I also think too many parents with troubled kids are getting consequences for thier lack of actions too.

 
December 26, 2006, 7:34 am CST

12/25 Divorcing the Family

Quote From: luckyboo80

I have never heard such a ridiculous thing to say or do about your children!! She needs to grow up and be a MOM!! They didn't ask to be born into this world, so she needs to raise her head up and take responcibility!  Has she even thought that MAYBE the problem is her?! She needs to go to couciling by herself and as a family.  You can't just push aside her children, expecially when they need you the most.

YUP !

Someone needs to tell these children just that too, it might help with the hard hearts they

are forming.  Imagine how seriously hurt they must be.  A Mom is suppose to be the one woman in the world a man never has to doubt a single bit about loving him? A Dad is suppose to be the role model of life ahead.  Thsse boys need to be taught that someone can love them unconditionally and there is conditions to relationships, they obviously do not know that or they would be the ones asking for a divorce.

Angry young men grow up to be angry adult men.  Boys that angry had alot to happen to get them that way!

 
December 26, 2006, 7:41 am CST

12/25 Divorcing the Family

Quote From: majick2

Shame on Peggy for thinking that divorcing one of her seventeen-year-old sons was the solution to her problem!  All that says to the kid is "I hate you, you're not welcome in my home."  How is that supposed to teach her son anything.  Good for the courts for denying the emancipation request.  It's time for parents to step up to the plate and be a parent.  Your children are NOT disposable merchandise and should NEVER be treated as such.

Home is a overused word about many families.  They do not get what a 'home' is.

I would think if parents knew that a Judge would make them pay support they would change thier patterns of abusing a child.  What that family needs to see is a parent face a Judge for

emotional abuse.  All that anger came from or grew somewhere in that 'house' they live in.

Someone needs to tell them about a 'home' for children because it would never utter such a evil thing to a child.  Divorce is for people who made a choice in relationship then changed what kind of relationship they wanted, how would a child possibly fit that criteria, what choice?

 
December 26, 2006, 10:41 am CST

you want your kids to fear you?

Quote From: fixitcr

      I get so tired of seeing this same theme, more or less, played out in family after family, here, there and all over this country, children rebelling against their parents with such anger and vehemence that the parents can't seem to cope.  My children are both adults now, one 41 and one 38, and I just had to have the, "you both act like adolescent children from time to time," talk with one of them again on the phone the other day. 

      It, (your control over them), has to start  when they are born, not when they reach an age of reason, (that may never happen), and it ends when one of you dies, them or you. 

      We started to lose control of our children when Dr. Benjamin Spock wrote his book about childhood and parenting, and women went to work enmasse. 

       A family is not a single parent raising one, two or a dozen children, a family is a mother and a father working together as a unit, raising children to be productive, respectable, compassionate, loving adults, so that they can raise their children the same way. 

       If children are not taught at a very early age, that their parents are to be respected, and feared, they will eventually wind up in the same situation as these kids.  Children today feel that there are no real consequences for inappropriate actions.  There probably weren't any when they were young and now they don't fear anything.  What a shame....

        

You can't define a family so narrowly.  Sometimes there aren't 2 parents present, for any one of a number of reasons.  Why don't these people don't meet your definition of family?  They may not be the ideal family, but they're still family.

 

I don't get you blaming Dr. Spock for anything.  Have you ever read Dr. Spock?  He never preached sheer permissiveness.  Sounds like you're looking for a scapegoat to blame for the problems in your family.  Have you ever looked at your own beliefs and ways of child-raising?  It sounds very strange to me that you're still giving  your kids lectures when they're 41 & 38.  Maybe you need to rethink some of your own attitudes instead of blaming a dead doctor who wrote some books.

 

Finally, I never wanted my kids to fear me.  I wanted their respect and I hope I earned it.  I tried to treat them with respect, at every age.  I listened to their opinions, even when they were little.  We all knew that I was the parent and I was the one to make final decisions, but I was always willing to hear what they thought about things.  They were entitled to their feelings and thoughts, although not the last word.  I  didn't do the job to 100% perfection, but my kids were were well-behaved most of the time.  They learned my values about how to behave when they were young and that stayed with them  as they became adults.  They had concerns about my reactions,  but fear?!  Never.  I would have been horrified to think they feared me.

 
December 26, 2006, 5:45 pm CST

Been there and still there

     I am in the same situation with a little/lot of difference too.  My husband was emotional/verbally abusive to us all.  I stayed in the marriage too long and fear the damage is done.  My son does not care about any rules or order.  He does have disabilities though, he has been diagnosed with Aspberger's, Bipolar, ADHD and OCD.  He has been to numerous programs and psychiatrists.  He claims that they have made him worse.  My husband was a yeller and I tried to keep the calm.  I probably interfered too much at times but I couldn't help it.  I have a strong faith and kept praying and searching for help and guidance.  I did finally leave my husband but I think it is too late.  He will do anything a friend wants him too as he has such a hard time making friends with aspberger.  He has stolen my vehicle, and crashed it, I did charge him, I believe he has to own up to his errors.  He overdosed and they thought he wouldn't make it but he did pull through.  But I  feel like an awful Mom as I wanted him not to pull through at the time.  We have worked with organizations to get him back in school and to work on his GED but to no avail.  He has no desire to do anything, he feels he is not worth anything, his life is boring and there is nothing for him.  Mental illness is very strong on my husbands side, my niece is full blown schizophrenic and my son has heard voices.  He is now 18, won't take his medication and my life has been filled with such stress that I am ill.  My child has demonstrated issues since birth and I knew if I didn't do something he would have been like those kids at columbine that killed the others.  He had no remorse, was cruel to animals, etc.  I worked hard with him and he now has remorse and loves animals but there are still areas that he has no concern for.  Many psychiatrists say he will never hold a job, I am trying to get social security help.  Socially and emotionally he is only 14 but I don't know how much more I can take.  I have given him an ultimatum that if he can't respect my and my rules (which aren't many) but that if he chooses not to he has till January 31 to move out.  I don't know if this is the right decision but I eel like I will die if I don't do something.  I can't live this way.  I sure would love any help you can give me.  This child has destroyed so much, I have had medications stolen, all my jewelry stolen, I live a meager life and have even lost time from work because of his issues and am barely surviving, please help Dr. Phil.
 
December 27, 2006, 3:34 am CST

12/25 Divorcing the Family

When I first watched this program in October I saw my boys. I have been raising my  twin grandsons for 13 years and they will be 16 in a few days. Their physical fighting is intolerable and moves from one end of the apartment to the other. Neighbours complain about the noise of the fighting. I have called the police because of the violence and once they leave the fighting continues. I have tried to get the boys to go to counseling but they refuse. They had problems in middle school and now believe themselves to be worthless, unable to learn anything. In November I filed for a CHINS petition but at the second hearing it was dismissed, much to the boys' delight. There was a lack of evidence--and lack of communication with the boys' lawyers--and I can't afford a lawyer to represent me.

 

Now I am watching as my boys fall deeper into depression and misdirection. Since the dismissal of the CHINS the boys' have lost their counseling because they wouldn't attend. They won't comply with curfews or follow any rules. My daughter passed away, the father is unknown and we have no family/friends around this area. The school doesn't care if a special ed student stays in school and as they are turning 16, they have decided that they are going to quit. Of course I will refuse to sign any papers to allow that to happen but it doesn't mean that they will go to school. We live in a depressed area, the schools are not up to par, there is nothing to help teens in this area and there are no support groups for lower income grandparents raising grandchildren. I don't know what is out there to help, if anything. I feel like my hands are tied at this point and I keep hearing people say that once a child is 16 nobody cares what happens to them around here.

 

I don't know what else to do for my boys. I hate the way in which the boys are heading. I don't know how to redirect them, they won't listen to me at all. I'm just looking for ideas/information that might help my boys.

 

 
December 27, 2006, 12:00 pm CST

What a Feeling of Being a Failure as a parent

I am a mother of a 17 year old girl. Thru out her life she has been a gem but she has lots of things to deal with. When she was 3 and a half her Dad had a major stroke. He has not always spoken to her kind ly. I have protected her too much because of it. When she was 8 I was disgnosed with MS.

 

We moved her to another High School her sophomore year in hopes it would get her in a school that offered more things that she was interested in and things would offer more of what she is good at. The summer between her freshman and sophomore year she tore her ACL in her knee. She was a pitcher. That's when the trouble started. She became depressed but I wasn't aware of just how bad it was. She kept telling this guy she wouldn't date her and then agreed to after much persisitence. She told him her values and goals and she told him if didn't like them to leave now. Well, he didn't but he broke her from all of her values and morals. His family has a long history of teen pregnancy and they latched onto her and have made her hate everything I stand for. She moved out last year when a nurse practitioner stepped in and told me she needed to keep her safe. I have never abused my daughhter, in fact we have always been close. He dumps her but each time I get her going to counselor he starts playing mind games again. She yells at me ( those times are fewer and farther between ) but when she starts she goes into total meltdown mode. She lies and  was threatening to move out. I  told her that if she did the cops would bring her home until she was 18.

 

I have heard the story that  we gave her too much. That we spoiled her. When she moved out then she told me she was tired of being our good little girl. Everything has been our fault according to the Nurse Practitioner, his parents and Grandparents.

 

This situation has contributed to my MS getting worse. This is not a divorce situation like one of the posts states. My counselor stated that we are trying to reason with a mind that is not capable of it.

 
December 28, 2006, 8:48 am CST

PERSONALITY DISORDERS IN CHILDREN AND ADOLESCENTS

Personality Disorders have traditionally been conceptualized only in adults, yet it is not uncommon to encounter children and adolescents with the classic diagnostic signs.  Some of my favorite books which provide a great introduction into the subject of personality disorders in youth are:     

    

Treating Personality Disorders in Children and Adolescents:  A Relational Approach by Efrain Bleiberg   

   

Boundaries:  Where You End and I Begin by Anne Katherine    

        

Youngsters with personality disorders may come across as strikingly arrogant, defiant and manipulative.     

    

Hope it helps!   

 

   

 
January 1, 2007, 2:13 pm CST

it can't be all your fault

Quote From: stitched06

I am a mother of a 17 year old girl. Thru out her life she has been a gem but she has lots of things to deal with. When she was 3 and a half her Dad had a major stroke. He has not always spoken to her kind ly. I have protected her too much because of it. When she was 8 I was disgnosed with MS.

 

We moved her to another High School her sophomore year in hopes it would get her in a school that offered more things that she was interested in and things would offer more of what she is good at. The summer between her freshman and sophomore year she tore her ACL in her knee. She was a pitcher. That's when the trouble started. She became depressed but I wasn't aware of just how bad it was. She kept telling this guy she wouldn't date her and then agreed to after much persisitence. She told him her values and goals and she told him if didn't like them to leave now. Well, he didn't but he broke her from all of her values and morals. His family has a long history of teen pregnancy and they latched onto her and have made her hate everything I stand for. She moved out last year when a nurse practitioner stepped in and told me she needed to keep her safe. I have never abused my daughhter, in fact we have always been close. He dumps her but each time I get her going to counselor he starts playing mind games again. She yells at me ( those times are fewer and farther between ) but when she starts she goes into total meltdown mode. She lies and  was threatening to move out. I  told her that if she did the cops would bring her home until she was 18.

 

I have heard the story that  we gave her too much. That we spoiled her. When she moved out then she told me she was tired of being our good little girl. Everything has been our fault according to the Nurse Practitioner, his parents and Grandparents.

 

This situation has contributed to my MS getting worse. This is not a divorce situation like one of the posts states. My counselor stated that we are trying to reason with a mind that is not capable of it.

You should know one thing for sure: everything is not your fault.  You're just not that powerful.  Bad things happen in life over which we have no control: ie, stroke, ms.  Did you make mistakes as a parent?  Sure.  Join the club.  Sounds like a situation where various factors collided - bad parental health, knee  injury taking away the child's outlet in sports, meeting a bum, maybe an inept counselor &  a host of other things brought you all to this point.   She's at an age where helpful intervention is very difficult, but it's not the end of the story.  Just don't make yourself and everything else worse by thinking it's all your fault.  You know, rationally, that it's silly to believe you controlled everything.  Good luck and let up on yourself.
 
January 1, 2007, 2:14 pm CST

it can't be all your fault

Quote From: stitched06

I am a mother of a 17 year old girl. Thru out her life she has been a gem but she has lots of things to deal with. When she was 3 and a half her Dad had a major stroke. He has not always spoken to her kind ly. I have protected her too much because of it. When she was 8 I was disgnosed with MS.

 

We moved her to another High School her sophomore year in hopes it would get her in a school that offered more things that she was interested in and things would offer more of what she is good at. The summer between her freshman and sophomore year she tore her ACL in her knee. She was a pitcher. That's when the trouble started. She became depressed but I wasn't aware of just how bad it was. She kept telling this guy she wouldn't date her and then agreed to after much persisitence. She told him her values and goals and she told him if didn't like them to leave now. Well, he didn't but he broke her from all of her values and morals. His family has a long history of teen pregnancy and they latched onto her and have made her hate everything I stand for. She moved out last year when a nurse practitioner stepped in and told me she needed to keep her safe. I have never abused my daughhter, in fact we have always been close. He dumps her but each time I get her going to counselor he starts playing mind games again. She yells at me ( those times are fewer and farther between ) but when she starts she goes into total meltdown mode. She lies and  was threatening to move out. I  told her that if she did the cops would bring her home until she was 18.

 

I have heard the story that  we gave her too much. That we spoiled her. When she moved out then she told me she was tired of being our good little girl. Everything has been our fault according to the Nurse Practitioner, his parents and Grandparents.

 

This situation has contributed to my MS getting worse. This is not a divorce situation like one of the posts states. My counselor stated that we are trying to reason with a mind that is not capable of it.

You should know one thing for sure: everything is not your fault.  You're just not that powerful.  Bad things happen in life over which we have no control: ie, stroke, ms.  Did you make mistakes as a parent?  Sure.  Join the club.  Sounds like a situation where various factors collided - bad parental health, knee  injury taking away the child's outlet in sports, meeting a bum, maybe an inept counselor &  a host of other things brought you all to this point.   She's at an age where helpful intervention is very difficult, but it's not the end of the story.  Just don't make yourself and everything else worse by thinking it's all your fault.  You know, rationally, that it's silly to believe you controlled everything.  Good luck and let up on yourself.
 
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