Topic : 03/07 When Too Much is ... Too Much

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Created on : Friday, November 10, 2006, 09:20:25 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 11/15/06) Imagine discovering that your next-door neighbor owns over 200 cats. Ray and Dennis never thought their neighbor, Kristy, would let her pet collection get that big. Once friends, the three are now in a nasty and vindictive war because of the felines. Ray and Dennis say Kristy's property is one big, disgusting litter box, and they want Kristy to get rid of her cats. Kristy says she'll never part with her "cat sanctuary." Are Ray and Dennis playing dirty in order to run Kristy out of town? When is it too much, and where do you draw the line in the litter box? Then, Mike says his wife, Lori, keeps everything from used envelopes to empty food jars and medicine bottles, because she "might need it" in the future. He is ready to take desperate measures to put a stop to this. Lori says the thought of throwing her stuff out is her worst nightmare. Is Mike guilty of making nasty bribes to get his wife to change? What's really behind Lori's habit for hoarding? Tell us what you think!

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November 15, 2006, 8:19 am PST

10 acres for 200 cats is alot of room to roam - What is the REAL problem?

I just finished watching the show. Yes, 200 cats are ALOT, but this woman lives on 10 acres! She must live in the country , so who is to say what she can or can not have on her property! The show did not say how close her neighbors are next to her, but I can not imagine with that amount of property they are right next to her home.

I feel she is doing the right thing rescuing cats, getting them fixed and all the shots ( I assume she also cks them for feline lukemia). She must be spending alot of money on this cause of saving cats and I comende her on this. 

I feel there is a deeper motive in this neighbor attack, as it seems to go on a personal level with the one gentlemen and the other gentleman seems to have gotton on the bandwagon as he is not happy with the situation either. These 2 neighbors seem to be wanting to move her out.......I could see this if they lived in town and in a suburb neighborhood, but this is on a large property!

I guess what makes me upset about this is that;
#1She is trying to help animals in a right way and she is getting pushed by bullies
#2She lives on 10 acres in the (country?) and someone is telling her what she can and can not have. If you live in the country and own your own property, no one has the right to tell you to move you junk car , so why should someone tell her how many pets she should have (being only 4)?

One more thing, Dr. Phil and others were saying she should save the pets, fix them up and adopt them all out. Well I am sure alot of these cats are feral or have problems of some sort that alot of people wanting a house cat would not want to adopt. This may be why she has alot of them with her. Although I am sure she is attached to each and every one of them, but it does seem like she tries to find homes for them. But you must remember it is HARD to find good homes for cats. NOt exactly alot of waiting lists going around for cats.
 
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November 15, 2006, 8:27 am PST

She takes care of these cats well

Quote From: afraid

Too Many Cats: A Call for Compassion
by Marie Hartwell-Walker, Ed.D.
 
From my files:

When the Board of Health went into the home, they discovered 38 cats and three dogs living in squalor with an elderly brother and sister. Feces and urine covered the floor. Most of the animals were sick and dirty. But their owners insisted that they loved their animals and that they did a good job caring for them.

When Mary, age 50, married Bill, age 58, she knew he loved cats and that he had quite a few. She wasn't prepared for cats on the counters, cats in their bed, cats on the table when they had meals, and cats having first rights to every chair. She was even less happy with money going to special cat food instead of bills and the amount of time every day that Bill devoted to talking to his cats instead of paying attention to her. When she complained, Bill said, "If you try to separate me from my cats, you will have to leave." After five months of trying unsuccessfully to get him to change, she filed for divorce.

A 48-year-old woman was discovered to have over 70 cats, many of them ill, living in her home. Im the Mother Theresa for cats, she replied when asked why she had so many. She went on to explain that over the years she had rescued each of the animals because it was sick, injured, or a stray. She was convinced that only she could provide the care they needed.

The neighbors of an elderly woman complained of a horrible smell coming from her third floor apartment. When police went to investigate, they found dozens of cats. Too frail to get litter up to her walk-up apartment or to change the boxes, their owner had trained the cats to use her former bedroom as a giant litter box. She insisted that the animals were like children to her and that they were the only beings that had ever made her feel truly loved.
Its remarkable how many people have heard stories like these! And yet, there is little in the psychiatric literature about the phenomenon of over-accumulating pets. But Ive found that when I talk about it, often enough the listener knows someone who knew someone who had so many animals that they overwhelmed her ability to care for them. Usually, these situations come to the attention of Boards of Health, animal rescue organizations, and the legal system instead of the mental health system. But studies now show that many, if not most, of the people who create a lifestyle that is overrun by animals are mentally ill.

Our communities need to reconsider how these cases are handled. Often, a Board of Health will condemn the home, euthanize the animals, and perhaps take the owners to court for destruction of property and/or cruelty to animals. The owner is then left to cope with the loss of the animals, the loss of her or his home, and the loss of the organizing principle (the relationship with the animals) that has kept her or him marginally functional. The experience is devastating. Sometimes it results in homelessness and an increase in the symptoms of mental illness.

When a Lot of Animals is NOT a Problem

There certainly are people who live their lives surrounded by animals and who dont have problems with it. Farm families, for example, often have dozens of barn cats to keep the rodent population in control. These animals arent pets and the families dont attribute special qualities to them or develop special relationships with them. They are simply a part of farm life.

Other people are truly cat or dog lovers and have many pets. These people take good care of the animals and maintain a balanced life that includes self-care, work, friends, and family. Although very fond of their pets, they don't let their relationships with the animals dominate their lives to the exclusion of people and activities.

Still other animal lovers find a way to make a living based on their passion for animals. Professions that are a positive expression of caring for animals include being a breeder or a veterinarian, running a stable, or managing a shelter for homeless cats and dogs. In all cases, these professionals provide appropriate care and have a realistic understanding of the relationship between themselves and their animals.

When Multiple Pets May Indicate a Mental Illness

People whose lives are unmanageable due to the number of animals that share their home are usually suffering from some form of mental illness. Symptoms of mental illness may include some combination of the following:

The individual believes that she or he is offering the animals exceptional care despite the objective evidence that many are ill, malnourished, dirty, and/or dying;


The individual sees the animals as children or siblings and looks to them for love he or she never found with other people;


The individual believes that she or he has a special ability to communicate directly with the animals or that there is a spiritual connection with them;


The individual feels compelled to bring home any stray or injured animal, believing that only she or he can give it adequate care;


The individual's home is so disorganized and cluttered with animals and useless objects that it is impossible to function within it; and/or


The individual fails to recognize that the condition of the home is a health risk for people and animals alike.
What Can Be Done? A Call for Compassion

Condemning the building and killing the animals solves the immediate problem for the community, but it does so at a price. Often people who collect animals are surprisingly functional in other ways. Many hold jobs and manage money reasonably. But when they lose their animals and homes, they fall apart. Often these people have no relatives who want to take them in and few resources for starting over. They then become the charge of either the mental health system, the legal system, or both.

A more compassionate approach to the care of these individuals would result in lower human and economic costs. Such an approach might include these elements:

Recognizing that the problem is born of illness, not of rebellion, carelessness, irresponsibility, or a desire to act out. If this were the case, the first response would include mental health workers as well as the Board of Health and police.


Making treatment available as mental health researchers and practitioners develop more understanding of the phenomenon and models for treatment. Psychotherapy and perhaps some medication can help these individuals keep their homes, keep at least some of their animals, and manage their lives. These people need to be helped into appropriate treatment.


Arranging support to help these individuals manage their pets and keep their homes. Deinstitutionalization of the mentally ill has resulted in the development of many excellent community-based services. If we see these people as ill, we need to be willing to provide them with the same supports and direct help (outreach workers, housekeepers, case managers, representative payees) that our communities provide to people with other diagnoses.
There are some communities, especially small towns where the "cat lady" is a town character, where the local authorities try to work with the situation rather than take radical steps to simply end it. We have much to learn by studying the outcomes of these efforts. More research is needed to determine the most effective ways to help.

My guess is that we don't yet know how many people are suffering because they accumulate too many animals. It is, after all, a quiet illness. Unless the situation becomes so out-of-hand that someone makes a report to authorities, it can go on for years and years before anyone notices. By then, the home can become uninhabitable. We need to find ways to identify the problem early and to redefine it as an issue for treatment, not simply an issue for social control.

I read your first 3 paragraphs then stopped as there wa so much to read, but It  sounds like you are comparing her to these people who were unable to care for so many cats. I think , from what the show  got on camera, it seems she takes  very good care, with  a clean home and  a large property for them to roam.  I do not see a problem, I am sure the health dept has been to her home or at least the crew of Dr Phil's and there was not mention of an unkempt home.

I think this is a personal vindatia and feel for her as she is just trying to help with a problem that most people tend to look the other way on.
 
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November 15, 2006, 8:34 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: samuelson2005

I think that you are in serious denial.  39 animals is NOT healthy.  I noticed the cat in the picture is on your kitchen counter.  It is not sanitary to have animals walk on surfaces where you prepare food.  I have one cat and keep a very clean house.  However, even with just one cat there is constant shedding of hair so I have to sweep everyday and still don't get all the hair.   You may not be the typical animal hoarder but you very well could be on your way.  Why do you feel that you need to come to the rescue of every animal hardluck story.  Why didn't you just become a foster home for adoptable pets, or try to find loving homes for these animals so you wouldn't be overrunned by them? 

 

I'm not trying to sound mean but I think that you are lying to yourself as to why you feel the need to take on all these animals.  And you also said that you don't treat these animals like your children.  Yet later you talk about a pregnant 8 year cat that....'gave me 9 kids plus herself.'  Sounds to me like you consider them your children.  I honestly think that you are in denial about your need to have so many animals.

 

 

I dont mind cats on the counter, I have cleaning spray on the counter also and a cutting board at hand, to spray and use when I prepare food. Yes, cats do shed and you do have to sweep all the time as I have to spray my counter down couple times a day. It's clean and sanitary. I guess if you have cats on counters , just have to know you have to clean and disinfect alot more then  those without cats on couters..
 
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November 15, 2006, 8:44 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: westonsteph

I read your first 3 paragraphs then stopped as there wa so much to read, but It  sounds like you are comparing her to these people who were unable to care for so many cats. I think , from what the show  got on camera, it seems she takes  very good care, with  a clean home and  a large property for them to roam.  I do not see a problem, I am sure the health dept has been to her home or at least the crew of Dr Phil's and there was not mention of an unkempt home.

I think this is a personal vindatia and feel for her as she is just trying to help with a problem that most people tend to look the other way on.
If I lived next to her I'd be very annoyed. It's my right to not have to deal with the animals of others.

 It's not my fault that the pet population is out of control. I have done my part to be responsible. All of my pets I have ever had have been fixed and cared for and I do not let them annoy my neighbors. (I have one cat right now and that is it, ONE cat and he's very well cared for and he's well behaved.)

Her intentions might be good but she is a very selfish person in her intentions. If she were my neighbor I would be SO ANGRY! I imagine myself (I live in an apartment now) finally saving up a down payment for a house, moving in and then learning that someone in the neighborhood has a freaking cat farm!!!  I like cats, kinda, but I have a right as a property owner and as a part of civilized society to not have to deal with this kind of over the line over the top pet population.

I love animals, but I'm also pragmatic. They are just cats. If they can't find PROPER homes then maybe the should be put down.


 
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November 15, 2006, 8:45 am PST

Fellow Ohion

Quote From: beth2670

I am on the board of a group in Ohio with the primary focus being to help control cat overpopulation through non-lethal humane management efforts. Feral cats are greatly misunderstood. They are not adoptable. 200 is entirely too many cats. The fact she has had them spayed and neutered is the best thing she can do for them. Hopefully the attorney and viewers will help her with ideas to relocate some of the cats to an appropriate outdoor location.

Education about the enormity of pet overpopulation and the true nature of feral cats, which are not the same as stray cats, is key to beginning to put an end to pet overpopulation.

I encourage anyone who watched this show to find out about feral cats and Trap-Neuter-Return, the process which is growing in popularity to try and get a handle on the problem.

I also live in Ohio and agree with  your focus. I think the woman on the show has a good heart and is trying to help save cats. I am sure alot of these cats that she has are not adoptable, as many may be feral or have some kind of problem that may  limit them to being an indoor house cat - hence I am sure that is why they have found thier way to her. I comend her for saving and providing food and shelter for these cats and not just putting them down.

I guess I dont see where having these many animals on 10 acres is a problem, I may have missed where she lives (I am assuming in the country). And it seems she has a clean home, as the TV protrayed, so why should she be made to only keep 4!??

I myself have 6 from abusive and stray situations, one is strickly indoors and the others are indoor/outdoor garage cats that keep the mice away. I also have the occational ferel cats and possems that may come in the garage to feed at night.

 
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November 15, 2006, 8:48 am PST

200 cats

I love cats.  I used to find all the strays in my neighborhood when I was little and I took care of them.  But now, I'm 28 years old with 1 cat.  My next door nieghbor feeds the strays in the neighborhood; which I really don't have a problem with.  But, then they sneak into my yard to do their business, hide under my cars to keep warm, etc.  That is what I have a problem with.  My daughters caught one of the stray kittens this past summer.  They wanted to keep it.  One look at this poor thing and the Pope himself wouldn't have kept it; watery eyes, dirty from head to toe and that gunk that seeps from their eyes and if you don't get it treated, turns a crust green and seals their eyes shut.  On top that, they snuck it in and I had to play "bad mommy".  Now, we have fleas in my house because of "Veronica".  So, I agree that people should spay/neuter their animals.  I have a heart too and I can't bear to see a poor animal without food.  But reality sets in.  "If you feed them, they will come" (and probably never leave!)
 
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November 15, 2006, 9:12 am PST

This woman has a mental illness

Re: The Cat Lady-

I am surprised that Doctor Phil said he admired this behavior, as it is a form of mental illness. She needs serious psychiatric care. I worked as a vet tech for a time and one thing is for certain. All 200 cats cannot be healthy. There's just no way, either physically or socially. How can she possibly take them all to the vet for yearly checkups? Provide vet care for illnesses, especially URIs or conjunctivitis, which can speed through a group of cats like wildfire? Animal Planet does shows on this all the time. Animal Cops, etc...the ASPCA seems to always be dealing with collectors. Dr. Phil should have asked a rep from the humane association to appear so they could talk to this woman. They would explain what she is doing to those cats in the end, and it's not admirable. It's actually a form of cruelty, although not intentional. In some cases they will even prosecute collectors and have a court order against the collector to never own another pet.

 

I normally agree with Dr. Phil, but in this case, I just can't.

 
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November 15, 2006, 9:16 am PST

one more quick thing....

one more thing...my brother lived next to a cat collector for years before the entire neighborhood was able to shut down this woman's operation. She had about 150 cats. The smell DOES indeed knock you over when the wind blows in your direction. She can deny this all she wants, but it IS smelly, the cats are ALL over the neighborhood and they do not stay on their own property, period. My brother's car was all scratched up because of the cats jumping all over it. As a neighbor of a collector, I'd be pretty upset too. I don't blame those guys on the show today.
 
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November 15, 2006, 9:26 am PST

11/15 When Too Much is ... Too Much

Quote From: onawhimdotcom

Re: The Cat Lady-

I am surprised that Doctor Phil said he admired this behavior, as it is a form of mental illness. She needs serious psychiatric care. I worked as a vet tech for a time and one thing is for certain. All 200 cats cannot be healthy. There's just no way, either physically or socially. How can she possibly take them all to the vet for yearly checkups? Provide vet care for illnesses, especially URIs or conjunctivitis, which can speed through a group of cats like wildfire? Animal Planet does shows on this all the time. Animal Cops, etc...the ASPCA seems to always be dealing with collectors. Dr. Phil should have asked a rep from the humane association to appear so they could talk to this woman. They would explain what she is doing to those cats in the end, and it's not admirable. It's actually a form of cruelty, although not intentional. In some cases they will even prosecute collectors and have a court order against the collector to never own another pet.

 

I normally agree with Dr. Phil, but in this case, I just can't.

Well...having 200 cats in not an inherent sign of mental illness. It can be a sign of mental illness. I'm sure Dr Phil is qualified to tell the difference.

She has 10 acres and seems to take care of each cat. Cats are not dependant on human contact to be healthy, so it's not like she's failing them that way.

I think her intentions are good, but I would hate to live near her.
 
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November 15, 2006, 9:52 am PST

Hoarders like this terrorize neighborhoods and cost taxpayers money!

We have an animal hoarder in our small community - just google West Nantmeal Animal Hoarder. 

 

Flies, trash, dead animals, smell, filth, cruelty, nightmares, huge legal bills, sabotage and vandalism, slander, news trucks in our driveways, anger, dead animals and more dead animals, threats, sleepless nights, phone calls, emails, anger and more anger, and more dead animals, hundreds of thousands of dollars lost in property value, did I mention smell, dead animals and fear?.

 

That's what this self described 'vet tech' and 'animal rescuer' have brought to our neighborhood.

 

We went to the DA with 200 pages of photographs and documents.  Our township levied 165,000 in fines.  We know this person created the same mess in her last neighborhood, and after two years, we are STILL having the same problems.

 

Best advise - go to your township or municipality, your city government, and make sure you have laws and oridinances in place so that you have something to charge hoarders with, even if they are masquerading under the guise of an 'animal rescue'. 

 

 

 

 

 
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