Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Okay, where to start. Why don't we start with some facts?

 

http://www.hslda.org/docs/study/comp2001/HomeSchoolAchievement.pdf

 

Education level of the teacher:

Home schooling’s one-on-one tutorial method seemed to equalize the

influence of parents’ educational background on their children’s academic

performance. Home educated students’ test scores remained

between the 80th and 90th percentiles, whether their mothers had a

college degree or did not complete high school.

Students taught at home by mothers who never finished high school

scored a full 55 percentile points higher than public school students

from families of comparable educational backgrounds. Similarly, in

his 1999 study, Dr. Lawrence M. Rudner found no difference in

achievement according to whether or not a parent was certified to

teach. For those who would argue that only certified

teachers should be allowed to instruct their children at home, these

findings suggest that such a requirement would not meaningfully

affect student achievement.

 

Government regulation:

According to Ray, the degree of governmental regulation had no significant

effect on the academic performance of home schoolers. Whether a state imposed a high degree of regulation,low regulation, or no regulation, home school student test score averages were nearly identical.

 

On a personal note, can you please refrain from calling parents "egg and sperm donors"? It is highly offensive.

 I know that statistically home schoolers do much better both academically and socially.

 

Those statistics are largely invalid. In terms of statistical research, validity refers to the extent to which a study measures what it is supposed to measure. You have to be able to eliminate all possible variables that may effect the results. In most educational studies, it is very difficult to control all the variables.

 

When measuring the success of home schooling, not all home schooling families are required to participate. It is almost exclusively the ones who are doing a bang up job who participate in the research. It makes the data extremely skewed and it does not really measure whether or not the homeschooling is responsible for the success or the fact that those parents are so dedicated to their children. You cannot with any certainty attribute to success to the homeschooling as those students would probably do well in ANY educational setting. In fact, studies that separate students first by socioeconomic factors ( parents' income and education level) and THEN by schooling show that public school children tend to outperform both private school kids and home school kids.

 

Thank you for your manners and etiquette. Using either the literal or implied meaning, your statement is incorrect because NOT all home schooling parents are those who 'truly care about their child's education'. If you had read my entire post, I explained that many parents grow frustrated with the public school system because they resent being told the truth - that their kids are undisciplined and unmotivated. They get tired of being called when the child will not behave or when he refuses to learn. So they pull their kids out of school to avoid the reality that they are NOT doing their jobs as parents. These are the kids who don't show up on your statistics.

 

Bottom line, a parent is the child's first teacher, and I believe the most important.

 

I am in agreement there!

hi everyone!

I went to alot of school's growing up, ( my father moved alot for work...) I have been in Catholic , private, public and yes... sometimes even my mom would try and take on the task. I can't believe how nieve some of you are in what goes on in upper scale shools!! All the thing's you dread in public school's happen in private school's as well, ( plus the added stress of trying to keep up with everyone) I think the solution is for the parent's to pay attention & tune in. I have 2 little girl's myself , and they go to public school. I am fully satisfied that they are getting a good education.  The teacher's all know their name's ( and mine) and i feel very informed! If your involved with your kid's there is very little room for them to slip . TUNE IN !!!!!!!!!

The research compiled in this study is from parents who VOLUNTARILY participated in a mail in survey. Don't you think that skews the data a bit? When evaluating statistical information, HOW the data is collected is just as important as WHAT the data reveals.

 

The parents most likely to respond and participate are those who are rigorously involved in their children's education and feel very strongly about their homeschooling commitment. It simply doesn't transfer to ANY parent choosing to homeschooling. Public school data, on the other hand, must include ALL students. So it is not an accurate comparison. It is not difficult to set up a study to yield the results you are looking for. Not all survey results amount to FACTS.

 

I am not at all against homeschooling, and I know many parents who are doing an outstanding job. I do caution against giving the very misleading and inaccurate impression that any parents should be able to successfully home school or that homeschooling is always the best choice yielding the best results.

 

Sadly, some parents ARE little more than sperm and egg donors. If that doesn't apply to you, don't sweat it.

I have read all the messages in this thread and through it all I have noticed that alot of parents, homeschoolers, unschoolers, public-schoolers, and private schoolers are very quick to try and beat down all the other types of education that they have not chosen for their child(ren).  The first thing I would like to say is that every school is different, every class is different and every child is different....so no one can say that public school is best or that private school is the only way to go or that parent's who homeschool are the only ones who care or that all unschoolers are irresponsible.  It is my personal opinion that as a parent it is our responsiblity to do always do what we believe to be best for our children, no matter how much it may annoy or inconvenience you personally. 

I, personally, have chosen to unschool my children.  I haven't done this to be kind or gentle or coddle them in to being wimpy piles of mush, as an Army brat I can assure you, that would never happen.  I also haven't done this because I am too lazy to help out in public school, as a matter of fact I volunteer at a local elementary school where my nieces attend.  I have decided to unschool my children after alot of time and thought because I feel it is the most natural and effective way for a child to learn.  It's not that I don't believe that the other ways can't or don't work also, I just had to make a conscious decision about not only what I wanted my child to learn but also how. 

As an unschooling parent I have the ability to offer my children a freedom of education that is simply not available in public or private schools, or even in a traditional homeschool "class".  Someday, when my daughter is learning about the different levels of government I am going to be able to take her to Washington, D.C. and show her government in action.  When she learns how erosion created the Grand Canyon I won't have to worry about school schedules if I want to take her to see the wonder first hand.  On a smaller scale, when she learns about the revolutionary war, I can take her right down the road to a local monument.  The ability to not only teach my children what I think is important but also to show them and allow them to experience is only one reason I made the decision to unschool. 

I have heard alot about the socialization of unschooled and homeschooled children.  Again, I considered this when making my decision and I found that many of the parents I talked to about their children who attended public or private schools felt that most of their children's socialization came outside of school.  It's true, a school setting can and does provide the means to meet a wide range of other people your own age, but then, so does ballet class and joining a little league team.  I also found that these children tended to be wonderful socially in their own peer groups but often unprepared when placed in a setting where they were expected to interact with much older or younger people.  I, personally, think it is important for people to be able to interact comfortably with a wide range of ages and diversity, otherwise all the friends in the world aren't going to be able to help you when you have to have a conversation with your 50 year old boss at your first job after college. 

Testing, also, seems to be a major point of concern among parents who do not unschool.  I believe that my children are tested daily, and in the exact same way that life tests us.  Since college I have not had anyone at any job come up to me and say, ok, get out your paper and pencil it's time for a pop quiz.  Rather, it is much less formal, it is having to defend your knowledge in conversation, or answer an off hand question that will have no consequence other than your own embarassment at not knowing the correct answer.  I have chosen not to give written or oral exams to my children, I do however talk to them, to question them about what they do or do not know, and in that way show them what life will be like if they ever choose to be ignorant.

There are many other reasons I have chosen this path for my family, but I think this message has become lengthy enough.  However, I do want to point out that in my first paragraph I said I think it is our responsibility to do what we believe is best fo our children no matter how it makes us feel personally.  I hope I have made it clear that I am very happy with my decision to unschool, even though it has been inconvenient for me to have to work around it, especially being a single mom, but if the time ever came that I thought my daughter needed more structure or a standardized education I would be the first to start looking in to public and private schools.  In the end it isn't about what we want or even what we believe...it's what our children need and no one, no matter how staunch they are in their opinion can predict exactly which path might be best for your child. 

I agree that homeschooling has come a long way. There are many resources that have become available in the past ten years that have changed the dynamics of homeschooling. When I worked as a school administrator, I always passed on all the various websites and names of organizations and support groups to any parent considering homeschooling.

 

That doesn't change the fact that not every parent is cut out for homeschooling. Some parents do not see their own weaknesses. I can't tell you how many parents "correct" their child's homework and are actually undoing the correct work the child had and are confusing their kids and giving them inaccurate information and skills.

It has saddened me a little to read some of the post here in which the posters express their disdain for those of us who choose to unschool our kids. I am shocked by the hostility and the varied misconceptions these posters hold on to as truth. I don't think, given the forum and time constraints, I will be able to change very many minds on this matter but I would like to try in the hopes that a few will at least take some time to consider it a bit more.

I will post a small letter to the editor I sent to a local paper that asks the question...Back to School? Following that, I will add some key phrases that interested parties can Google in order to do some addition research should they wish. I write all this a parent and former teacher who quit following some reflection on just what schools are doing to our kids...thanks in advance for your time,

Ian McKay ---Please read on....

Back to School? 

       AsSeptember rolls around most people will start buying pencil cases, new schoolclothes and gearing up to start the “School Year” once again. Despite our loveof office supplies and the smell of crayons we will not be making those frenziedtrips to the mall and I want to let you know that you don’t have to either.Homeschooling in Nova Scotia is a viable and incredibly rewarding option thatis open to everyone who has at least one parent at home during the day. Nospecial training, curriculum or mandatory testing is required and your familywill be granted the great gift of time; time to be together to learn aboutyourselves and each other.  

       We are an Unschooling family. Ourdays are not dictated by school schedules and homework regimens. Mornings arenot a great rush to get lunch together and permission slips signed before theschool bus arrives. There are no nightly battles of the will where I try toforce my child to do homework that may or may not have any real value. We don’tgripe to our friends about the teacher our child has been assigned or strugglefruitlessly against the system to deal with bullies in our child’s class. Onsunny days we enjoy the weather, on snowy days we make angels, on lazy days weeach find a spot in a sunbeam and read a book. We stay up late to watch goodmovies, play games or just talk. Grandparents visit whenever they can and wetake trips without having to arrange everything around exams or March break.Our children go to sleepovers mid-week and stay an extra day when they can.They find great friends based on interests and temperaments instead of age andhomeroom. 

      In short, our time is ours. Ourchildren spend time learning about the world while following their interests.And they do learn. It is impossible not to. More importantly, what they learnthey learn well. They don’t study because they are forced to in order to pass atest; they study because the want to. They learn about their interests becausethey HAVE to. Their passions and curiosity drive them like no gold star evercould. 
 
       So before you start stocking up on bologna and three ring binders ask yourselfwhat your child actually gets from the 1200 hours of classroom time the schooldemands each and every year and how you might better spend those hourstogether. Remember, time is non-refundable.
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Here are some things you may want to explore....

Hidden Curriculum
John Taylor Gatto
The Teenage Liberation Handbook

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Unschooling works. I have seen the results of this approach in my own children and my family as a whole. I have seen it in the many friends and their children who make up our rich and varied community, locally and around the world. Should everyone do it? I would never suggest such a course. Nor would I suggest that everyone should be compelled to hand over their children to the State for a good chunk of their lives in the hopes that it will lead to 'an economic competitive edge' 12 years down the road.

My sons are bright and curious; skilled and compassionate; socially adept and well informed.  I have no doubt they will make their way in the world as adults with money in their pockets AND joy in their hearts. I know this for I know them well...unschooling does that for a family in a  way that schooling outside the home never could. There is simply no substitute for time well spent with those you love.

I have already written more than i intended, but I thank you for taking the time to read it.

Ian McKay
Unschooling Father

My children have always been unschooled and are thriving.  Not only do they have a broad base of knowledge about the world around them in all 'subjects' (we don't teach to subjects, nor do we teach) but they are articulate, compassionate, social, and get along well with their peers (public schooled and homeschooled).  They are involved in outside activities (skateboarding, horseback riding) and loved by their instructors and camp counselors. 

 

Unschooling = educational neglect?  You might think that based on the fact that kids learn what they want when they want,  but when a child is allowed to follow their passions, the rest falls into place.  At its core is TRUST.  They may not follow the timetable of the public school system, but their 'study' of certain things isn't limited to a week, or a chapter, or until the test.  They can explore a topic as deeply as they choose.  A love of horses leads to all sorts of interesting things: history, geography, math, animal husbandry, sports, anatomy, etc.  Skateboarding has led my son into physics, geometry, geography, math, and sports.

 

Our topics of conversation during a normal day of living covers anything from politics and government (thanks to the recent elections) to astronomy to botany, trading, as well as hefty doses of math, reading, and writing.  not by worksheets or homework, but by doing the things they love.

 

Until you've immersed yourself into the world of unschooling  you have no idea what it's really about.  If you want statistics that prove we're not a bunch of whackos raising delinquents or gas station attendants, then go to www.sudval.org.  A school where kids not only make and enforce the rules of the school, including hiring and firing of staff, but their whole educational philosophy is unschooling.  The kids do what they want, all day, every day.  YET, they have a 30 year track record of success.

 

Unschooling isn't for everyone.  But it's not a decision made lightly for those of us who choose it for our families.  I see myself more of my children's facilitator than educator.  My job is to provide experiences and to strew their path with cool stuff.  It's my job to answer their questions and help them find the answers.  I personally am a lifelong learner and learn every single day right along with my kids.  And it's amazing what I learn from them!

 

I'm happy to be raising responsible people whose love of learning, creativity, and independent thinking hasn't been squashed out of them.  They are confident in who they are, are comfortable making decisions, and don't  bow down to peer pressure.  I love who my kids are as people, who they are right now.  And I have confidence that they will succeed in life and achieve any goals they set for themselves now and in the future.  They are self-starters.

 

Unschooling is the polar opposite of educational neglect.  But I can guarantee that most people, including Dr. Phil, have no idea what true unschooling actually is.

 I am a home schooler and would say I am more of a traditional home schooler (schedule, curriculum, course of study for high school, assingments, and tests).

I have researched unschooling and found it not to be for us. I just did not think my child could best benefit from it. Since I have never "un" schooled, I can't speak harsh about something I know little about. But, from that I have read, I can't see how I could get my child into a good college with it. If I do not have stuctured classes or books......what do I put on a trascript? How would I put a grade for a subject on a grade report? How will I know my child knows everything needed to make a good score on an SAT/ACT, get a good job, or get into college? My child wants to be a Chemist when she graduates home school. This means she will have to take many science coarses and have to have a pretty good transcript with good SAT/ACT scores to get into college. I just don't how I could benifit my kids if I un-school them.
I think I will stick with traditional home school....more power to those who choose the other way. This is just my opinion.