Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

Again, caring about education does not an educator make.

I took offense and I am for home schooling in some situations. The failure was on the OP because her statement was UNCLEAR.

I'm a very bright person, but I too misunderstood what she said. The onus isn't on readers to understand what she "meant".

Society benefits from having an educated population.

When I say schools are free, I mean that the burden to pay for the schools is not on the parents. I mean anyone can attend even if they don't have a penny to their name.

We all pay taxes. WE ALL benefit from education, even if it's not our own.

Today's Educational degrees are a joke in my opinion.

 

You are entitled to your opinion.  What about a parent with no education beyond the 10th grade that is homeschooling their children?

 

That to me is a bigger joke!

 

Fredi

 

 

How do I know, without testing and grades and such, you mean?  Without external evaluation?

 

Let me ask this before I answer:  How do you know YOUR kids are doing well and are going to be ready for the adult world and gainful employment?  Do you rely on their grades?  Assessments by teachers?  What?

 

I see my kids in action every day.  My daughter, when she was 10, held a job at the barn mucking stalls and feeding horses in exchange for extra riding time.  She comes to work with me and is helpful to my clients when they walk through the door.  She can use a computer better than I can, including programming with html.  She currently runs an online store, though it deals with points instead of cash.  I see what she's learning and what she already knows in the questions she asks me.   Because I talk with my kids about everything and anything.

 

My son is only 8 but he's the master of tenacity.  He'll do whatever he sets his mind to do in life.  No doubt about that.  Because he already does.

 

Riding instructors, skateboard camp counselors, grandparents with education backgrounds, other parents have all commented on the maturity and poise of my children, along with being awed by their knowledge base.  They may not have the exact base their public schooled peers have but they have breadth and depth in the knowledge they do have.

 

No doubt in my mind whatsoever.  Plus, I have the benefit of knowing other lifelong unschoolers and seeing them get into college or succeed in business that i harbor no doubts about my own kids.

 

Why do people feel that external assessment is so important? 

I have not read all the messages on this board. I am jumping in with my two cents, before this episode even airs.

 

From what I read on the Dr. Phil site and what I read on the blogosphere from homeschoolers featured on the show or in the audience for the taping of this episode "The Great School Debate",  I am worried. Specifically it seems to me that the method of homeshcooling chosen by at least one family on the show is "unschooling". All I have the energy to say right now is that there are many ways to homeschool and a very loose and unstructured method which some call "unschooling" is not the only way. Entire books have been written to explain the "unschooling" method and I don't think that it can be explained well in one Dr. Phil episode, and certainly homeschooling in general (all the pro's and the con's)  can't be covered in one Dr. Phil show either.

 

My children have never been to school of any kind, not preschool, not school, not daycare, etc. They are presently 6 and 9 years old, very well adjusted, socialized, smart children who are doing well. I don't use the unschooling method presently, we only did that in first five years of my older son's life. Oh, and if you are wondering, they are not isolated or sheltered. They are out in the community mingling with many other children, homeschooled children, private schooled children and public schooled children. My family does not live in a bubble by any means. We are active in community activities (i.e. Cub Scouting) and my kids take some classes too (sport, swimming lessons, academic subjects in paid homeschoolers classes, etc.).

 

If someone is worried that all homeschoolers are not getting a high quality education, they can read about the classical method which is described in a book "The Well Trained Mind" by Jessie Wise and Susan Wise Bauer, and they have a big website, too. That is a very rigorous program which is more difficult than what public schools do. So there is a spectrum, the unschooling/loose/learner-drivenmethod on one end of the pendulum and the high-achieving/parent directed classical method on the other. Many homeschooling families fall somewhere along the spectrum, in the middle.

 

Homeschooling is a gigantic subject and I fear that the show will portray only one method  (unschooling) which is the most controversial method, even unschoolers will admit that their method is usually not understood and can even sometimes be hard to articulate to other homeschoolers and especially hard to explain to those who know nothing about homeschooling.

 

Also most families do not homeschool out of fear of a huge crime in school (i.e. murders in school). There are many reasons that a family would want to homeschool and why that may be one reason it is not the #1 reason for most families. It seemed from the show's preview that the crime element in school was going to be a large feature.

 

There are many books on homeschooling on the market that tell the pro's of it. There are many free websites for information should anyone be curious for more information.

 Thank you for your kind words...I agree with you; for the most part.

All states regulate home schooling to a point. Some states are more strict than others when it comes to what the parent can and can't do.

For example: I live in Missouri. I do not answer to anyone unless called to court if someone reports me for educational neglect. Even then, the courts must feel strongly that I am not home schooling/teaching anything. In that case, I would have to show I am home schooling to the law by showing records.

I have to teach 1,000 hours per year; at least 600 hours in the fiverequired subjects; 400 of these 600 hours must occur at "the regularhome school location" (one hour=one class/subject), Reading, math, social studies, language arts, and science, Maintain records of subjects taught, activities engagedin, samples of the child's academic work and evaluations or a credibleequivalent, and a written log showing the hours required under"attendance". If I do not do this and EVER got called to court....I would be in trouble. I keep records like any public school would so, I am covered in that respect.

I do not have to have qualifications (A high school education or higher is what I think everyone should have to teach), I do not have to give notice to anyone that I am home schooling. If a social worker knocks on my door for educational neglect...she must leave if I tell her I am home schooling. She/he can then turn that over to a truant officer who then will ask the same thing of me. When I say, again, I am home schooling...he can let it go or give to the city prosecutor who can then subpoena my records.....in my case...my records would proove I am home schooling to the law. I also do not have to give my children tests (though I do anyway).

Other states are even stricter and the parents have to report to people each year (school officials) and be "approved" approved to home school.  you can see that here by clicking on a state:
http://www.hslda.org/hs/state/default.asp

At the risk of being understood, at NO time did I state that I was against homeschooling. Nor do I think public education is without flaws.I have no "offensive tone" towards people who homeschool. I have stated on this post that I personally know several families who are doing a tremendous job.

 

MY POINT is that we should all be very cautious about propagating the idea that homeschooling is an easy route or that ANY parent can homeschool his/her children. I don't think it is a far out concept that a parent who can barely construct a coherent sentence themselves probably should not take on the responsibility of a child's education.

 

And let's be real. Why do you think public schools are dumbing down the standards? It's primarily because of the lack of support they get from so many parents. It is incredibly frustrating as a teacher to realize that you cannot effectively give homework because most of the students won't do it and there are NO consequences at home when the child refuses to learn.  Sadly, many parents are more concerned that their children simply pass so they do not have to deal with the reality that their children are not learning. Schools are only going to be as good as the children who attend them and the families who support them. Sure, there are plenty of teachers who need to be shown the door and plenty of things that can be fixed within the system, but it would take a novella to explain them all.

 

Don't homeschooling parents primarily want to avoid some of the negative aspects of traditional school? What are those negative aspects? Bullying? Peer Pressure? Being in a classroom full of unmotivated students who force the slowdown of the curriculum and distract the learning process because of their behaviors? Who is responsible for these problems? I can't come up with any other answer than the students and the parents who raised them. It is THESE parents who I believe should not be homeschooling.

 

The reason why most homeschool kids are doing well is that they generally have the other important factors going for them. As an educator, nothing steams me more than incompetent teachers or foolish practices in education. If you are a good homeschooling parent, shouldn't you be concerned with the notion that just anybody can do it? I would think you would be very concerned that parents get the full picture about what it really takes to successfully homeschool before they even consider it.

How do kids learn to walk? Talk?  They do it by trying.  No matter how many 'walking lessons' you set up, basically your child will walk only when ready.  Same with talking.  They learn by doing, and because they WANT TO.  Kids want to explore the world around them.  They are programmed that way!!  Try stopping a toddler from learning.  You can't!

 

And if you don't stick life in a box or relegate it to black and white words on a page, where you're hemmed in by four walls and a teacher, the whole world is at their fingertips just waiting to be explored.  There are no bells to interrupt a subject you're fascinated by.  There is no forcing what their minds aren't quite ready to absorb.

 

My kids are 8 & 12.   They read, write, and do math.  Just not with textbooks and worksheets.  Math is all around us.  You can't get away from it.  They play with numbers all the time.

 

Contrast that to their public schooled friends who will avoid anything that has to do with numbers [my son was playing with a car advertisement and reading the prices (learning place value from 10s to 10s of thousands) and a school friend piped up and told him to stop 'doing math' because it was Saturday and you don't do math if you don't have to].  He was just having fun.  I knew he was learning.  Learning happens.  You can't stop a kid from reading when they're ready.

 

How do they learn to spell?  E-mailing friends and family.  Making lists.  Asking questions.  By reading.  Because they have a real-life reason to.

 

How do they learn to read?  Again, the written word is all around us.  Internet, computer games, instruction manuals, e-mails, etc.

 

I don't need to MAKE SURE my kids know these things.  They WANT to know these things.  As I said before, it comes down to TRUST.  And after 12 years of watching and observing,  it's easy to see that they are learning.  Every day.  By living life in the real world instead of being closed into a box.

 

I am my children's facilitator.  I supply information, or where they might find that information.  Google is our friend.  The world is at our fingertips.  Not in a dull textbook written 20 years ago.

 

Let me ask this:  As an adult, how do YOU learn?  Do you take a class every time you want to know something?  Or do you go to the library, use google, ask friends, find someone who  knows, etc?