Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

 I'm with ya! The difference between the High school I went to and the High School were I live huge. They're only 12  miles apart in distance but world's apart in quality of education at the higher levels.

My daughter is in Middle School and we moved for a time back to my home town. That Middle School was 6 mos. or more ahead of the school she was in. However, she was able to catch-up because, the teachers took the time AND kept it interesting. They're also not nearly as rigid on  the rules. Kids may talk quietly in the halls and before class(as long as they're ready when the teacher comes in) I believe kids need that few minutes of down time between classes. The school  we came back to (the one she originally left) gives them less time between classes and they may not talk in the halls or in  class before class starts. Although, the teachers may be standing in front of their doors talking for ten minutes.

Things are a little better this year as I went in and complained and pointed out discrepencies

I am not looking for satisfaction, I really haven't heard much about "unschooling" so I am trying to understand it better. Honesty works just fine.

Let me ask you this, and again - just trying to figure this all out - what is it that you want them to be able to do when they are adults. Somebody posted earlier that they thought their kids would be self-employed and not have to ever worry about working for someone else. So I have to wonder, what if the child decides at some point that he would like to be a doctor, or a lawyer, or an astronaut - how can be sure, or at least reasonably assured, that "unschooling" is going to give him the skills he needs to enter those very tough, very specific, very competitive professions?

I know when I was a child, I wanted to work at my grandfather's gas station. Left to my own interest and self-direction, I would have been playing with the cash register and credit card machines all day. It's not that I didn't LEARN anything there (I'm GREAT with a credit card!), but I'm not convinced that would have given me the skills I needed once I matured and had different aspirations.

At least those parents tried to home school and were smart enough to send them back to Public School when they realized they could not do it. Look, I understand your point....I do but, I do not think we can for sure say most kids fall through the cracks in home school since we both don't know all of them to say that. I do know that some do/might in home schooling just as in public school (my autistic child did and I saved her from it). I know that you have only had a few experiences with home schoolers but ...here are many more right here. I wish and hope all parents feel as I do that education, be it at home or in public school, is a VERY important part of a child's survival chances in life; you can never loose with it.

Secondly, if most kids fell through the cracks...none of these kids would be in college or have a job. My 9th grader is already looking into going to one of the three 2-4+ year colleges in our town. One of these colleges that has been around since the 1800's has a Dean who home schooled 4 out of 5 of his kids. They all graduated college and, now, the Dean accepts home schoolers with open arms. The point is..you have to have home schooled, like the Dean, to fully understand. My children have been in Public school most of their life so, I know how it is from both ends. Heck, I was public schooled.

I chose to home school because my child was not getting the special education help she needed [for Autism and other learning issues] in my area and I had no choice. It was either that or watch her fail or be failed. And, since I was home schooling one; I just did both my children (12 and 14). My child's grades got better with the one-on-one help I gave her and BEGGED the schools to give her.  She now has her own "IEP" with no timed tests, private reading areas for no distractions, one-on-one help (except with tests), and she and her sister still get to be in church, 4H, art classes, and Girl Scouts so they can be with their friends and make more.

I am not sure about other home schoolers but, I do know I have faith in my ability and I hold myself accountable for their success. Maybe it's because I am still working to finish my degree as well and understand the importance of an education. I see my two kids with such big brains and potential to be anything, that I could NEVER do them a disservice by NOT teaching them properly.
 

Bottom line, I understand your consern and think the only way to keep your consern from happening is to be a support to the home schooler.....even offering help if they need it. There are support groups out ther that I wish all home schoolers could take advantage of. It's not hard to do...I even made a website to help others. The more we put them down; the more they will not ask for advice or help for fear of what is happening right here on these boards. That's sad. Teachers and parents alike should all be heald accountable for thier kids education. Let's not just leave this up to the government to raise or kids...home schooled or not.
 

Sadly, in my experience, she is the exception. Most homeschool kids who end up back in the system are lacking in academics, social skills, and the ability to not be the center of the universe. Their parents had the "home" part down, but not so much on the "school."

This is what I posted. I was not insinuating AT ALL that most homeschool kids are falling through the cracks...but rather that most of them who end up back in the public schools. Most of the successful homeschooling parents do not need to put their kids back into public school.

I do agree that for special needs kids, the resources in the public schools can be less than adequate. I give tremendous respect to anyone who teaches special needs - it is a TOUGH job. The problem is lumping different needs together can be tricky. You can have an autism child in a class with an emotionally handicapped child, a conduct disordered child, etc. There are NO easy solutions, and I am glad that you were able to homeschool and that it works for you.

Read what I've written.

I think unschooling makes a lot of people very uncomfortable, as it goes against what conventional wisdom tells us.

Notice I did NOT say:  Everyone is uncomfortable with the idea of unschooling.  I didn't even accuse you of being uncomfortable.

No, my kids have never been formally assessed.  What would it tell me?  That they are at grade level?  They're not in school, so that info is not important to me.  That they're above grade level?  Again, grade level is not important to me.  That they're way behind?  Behind what?  They can't be behind themselves.  Oh, you mean grade level?  Um, is every kid in school 'at grade level'?  No.  Is every kid a straight A student?  Again, no.  I care more about who my kids are as people than any test score can tell me.

My children are bright, inquisitive, and there is no doubt in my mind that they can achieve anything in life they set their minds to.  Yes, that means college if they choose it.  But my idea of success in life and yours may not jive. 

What do I want them to know?  How to find the information they need on whatever topic they choose to learn about.  Do I have a goal?  No.  My kids set their own goals.  They are 8 & 12.  No need to decide the future today.  Do I expect them to be gainfully employed and to be able to live on their own?  Sure.  Why wouldn't they? 

Deadlines and unpleasant expectations are a part of living, and my kids do live in the real world.  As I've previously stated, my daughter had a job at age 10.  She managed to get to the barn on time without my prompting.

Success to me does not come from high achievement on standardized tests, awards, college degrees, or a boatload of money.  Success and happiness comes from within.  And we have several family members who have become very successful without college degrees, and another who is a skilled computer programmer (and well paid for it) who is self-taught.

Seeing is believing and the proof is in the pudding.  If you spent a few hours chatting with my kids you'd never know they have never attended school unless you asked them.

How do you know that they are behind?  Are you somehow testing them? 

Unschooling does not mean a lack of education, it is merely a name for a way of learning.

Question?

Who in your country would vote for an *Unschooled* President, or senator.........or anything???

Truly... nation wide, would an unschooled adult be privy to being parlayed into a prestigious position by their peers?  I think not.

Fredi

I know already my kiddies are going to be in public school (Mine are too young for school).  My overall job will be making sure they're learning, while not overworking them and letting them be kids.  I'm sure it's not easy, but that's my goal  :).

The one thing I do believe is that more money should go to public schools in general (I know a teacher.  She tells me what it's like working in a school) for things like more help and better learning tools.  It's important for every kid (rich or poor) to get a good education because they'll be running everything someday.

How do you know what your child would have learned if s/he had been unschooled? 

Do you have some kind of time machine for this type of experiment?