Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

Find out what happened on the show.

More November 2006 Show Boards.



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November 24, 2006, 3:06 pm PST

Unschooling

Quote From: purplepenny

My husband's Aunt is an "unschooler"...her children are sharply behind when it comes to every subject...I personally find it to be a very irresponsible thing to do. Our society requires education and society benefits from it.  Not everything is learned as a side effect of living. That's ridiculous.
Depends on how you live, though, don't you think?  Baking is a fractions lesson, sale shopping is a percentage lesson, eating in a restaurant is a manners, patience, articulation, grammar and language lesson (ordering what you want, returning it when it is incorrect),  traveling is a geography and social studies lesson.  You CAN learn it all through unschooling, especially if the learning is pointed out in a way that shows the child they have accomplished a new level of knowledge ("Excellent calculation on the price of the dress.  Can you afford it with the tax, or not?") All things are possible, it depends on the execution.
 
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November 24, 2006, 3:06 pm PST

I thought it was a show about education?

I was disappointed in the show because there was more talk about parentling and socialization then there was about education.  I thought public education was set up to educate our children?  Sounds to me like we are supposed to send them to school to get "socialized or parented" not educated.

 

If it's about education then we should look at those facts not how people choose to raise their children.  

 

Yes there are lots of educational options out there, let's "educate ourselves" about what options are available and choose what is right for our own children.  Oh I'm sorry educating ourselves would mean that we would be homeschooling!

 

Lori D.

 

 
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November 24, 2006, 3:08 pm PST

home schooling

 My opinion on home schooling vs school based schooling is that it is the parents choice if they choose to home school. however I do think it is important that the children do have regular socialization in the world even if in a home schooling environment. I also feel that the children who are home schooled should be required to meet some basic academic reqirements as set out by the governing body in the region they reside in. In other words parents who choose to home school their kids should be praised for  this undertaking... however ... they do still need to be accountable for teaching their children what their society deems appropriate for  the child's age and grade level, afterall, all children, home schooled or public schooled do need to be properly eqipped to live in society. It is the entire sociey we live in who is responsible  to make sure all children are properly educated and have all the rights, responsibilities and advantages that school based schooling is based on, whether it is completely successful at this or not, public schooling at least is accountable  to someone. Home schooling should be as accountable to certain levels of learning just as school based is.

 I also want to say something in regards to the parents on the show today who are raising their children by the do only what you want method of rearing children. Where in society do they think this will apply? if the child goes to university with this thinking it will not apply, if the child plays on a soccer team this will not apply, if the child makes friends  this will not apply, as a neighbor this does not apply, as a citizen this does not apply, if everyone does just as they want and only works on their own time frame the society would be in utter caos, our entire world works on the premise of schedules and cooperation. What of laws, do these people understand when they are teaching their children that it is solely their feelings and wishes that matter that also means they can do whatever they like in the real world as well, which could mean breaking laws. ( actually the  psychological definition of someone who only thinks of their own feelings and wishes, and lives without consequences is a sociopath ) 

There will be real consequences in the real world for children, whether parents properly equip them for the consequences or not. These parents are giving their children the biggest dissadvantage they can by not teaching them responsibility and consequences for actions, these parents are making their children totally dependent on them because no in the real world can relate to anyone who cannot fit in with other peoples wishes. These parents need to grow up and accept they are parents here, and they need to learn that rights come with responsibility, if a kid messes up his room it is in fact his responsibility to clean it, and a kid is quite capable of cleaning up after themself and any mother who thinks teaching a child to clean up after themself or lets kid s eat whatever they like whenever they like is not teaching her children a thing about responsibility or the real world and shes only kidding herself if she thinks otherwise.

The reasons parents make their children follow simple rules or guidelines is not because we  feel our children are less valuable humans than we are but because we value them more and we want them to succeed in life, we want them to learn to be responsible for themselves and others and to not always need us to do everything for them, we want them to value other relationships and people besides ourselves and we also want them to learn thru their struggles. Unfotrunately this mother and father have opted to raise their children with no accountability whatsoever and to me that is the risk of homeschooling, because in this case, the parents by home schooling have completely segregated their kids from normal human development, and altho they say the kids are in other areas, when the kids cant function in the sports because they dont like the rules or guidelines, it will be ok to these parents to let the kids  just quit ,because after all they are the ones who get to decide everything, and  they wont ever decide to triumph thru their struggles when they are always encouraged to avoid the struggles  in life.

 
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November 24, 2006, 3:09 pm PST

Responsiblility

I am sure that everyone  has there own opinion as to what is right and what is wrong,  and guess what I am going to share mine!! =:)  I do feel that it is the responsiblity of the School system AND of the parents/guardians to both take an interest in what is best for the child.  Parents I feel that it is our responsiblity to raise our children and you can do that the best way that you know how,  but leave the schooling to the professionals.  If the parents were as concerned about how our OWN kids are being raised rather than what is going on in the world around us,  then our kids will go out into the world with the knowledge and confidence needed to make good choices.  If we paid attention to what our childrens needs really are, not just what we think that they are,  we might be able to address whats really needing attention,  then when your child is put into a school system and out into the world ( which we all know isn't perfect) Our children will be able to make reasonable decisions. Lets work together to make our future better, and stop fighting the system.  Do not reinvent the wheel,  we can although work together to better it.
 
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November 24, 2006, 3:11 pm PST

Home Schooling is Better Than Large City Schools

I have worked in the public school system in NYC for the past seven years.  I would NEVER send my kids to most public NYC schools in the urban areas.  Teachers know the truth about how horrible the education can be in the buildings that they work in.  Overcrowded classrooms; Disrespectful and violent students; A system that is scared of litigation,so the school system bends to the loudest parents with the worst kids; Teachers who do not have their own classrooms; Non-educators making decisions like Mayor Bloomberg. An inconsistant curriculum which educators cannot agree upon; A curriculum which holds no merit in real and sustained knowledge;  The only children who really are able to obtain a well rounded education in the NYC public schools are the children which have the fortune of parents who are educated and involved... but that is not the majority of the population of NYC parents.  I shudder to think the criminals and future welfare abusers that are being produced by the NYC school system... which I am embarrassed to be a part of.

 
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November 24, 2006, 3:12 pm PST

Homeschooler

I graduated from pubilc school and college with two degrees.  I homeschool two daughters and feel it is what is best for my family.  I do not agree that teaching is a science.  It is a science when you are teaching a classroom full of students, but when one on one it is not.  I homeschool because my child is above average and went to public school for one year, pre K.  She was ignored becaue she was well behaved and knew what was being taught.  She even asked me why she had to go because she knew how to read and they were just going over ABC's. 

 

I feel that the show was very biased and the so called "studies" that were mentioned were not cited.  You had no young adults on the show that had a positive experience in being homeschooled. 

 

My daugter is very involved with other children and many people have told me how articulate and smart she is.  She is able to play well  with children her age, younger than she and older than she.  She is able to interact with adults well.  This idea of socialization is not very founded.   She is involved in Tae Kwon Do-Black belt degree next month.  She is taking piano lessons and she is very involved with church and the children in our community.  There are also the possibilities of homeschool groups, which you never even mentioned, where families get together and have classes and field trips.  Our community even gets together for high school science classes at the local community college. 

 

Public school is relatively new compared with the beginning of time up until now.  Our forefathers of America were all homeschooled.  Every one on earth was homeschooled up until the 1920's, when public school began.  So, was everyone up until the 1920's not very well socialized?  I think not. 

 

Again, I feel your show was very biased and based on very liberal ideas. 

 
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November 24, 2006, 3:13 pm PST

Parental support and involvement?

Quote From: mom930

I personally feel that traditional schooling is the best way for children to get a good education.  No, it's not a perfect system, but I feel that it is the best way for children to become aware of the world around them.  Socially, I think that homeschooling is not a great choice for kids.  Yes, parents can take their children to events and clubs, but most of those are things that interest the child.  What about those people in the world that are not like you?  How are you going to learn how to develp the skills needed to get along with other people.  I have never heard of unschooling until today.  My question is this...unless you are your own boss someday, how are you going to ever be happy working at a job where someone is telling you what to do?  The other complaint that I have are homeschooling parents who want to get their kids involved in sports affiliated with a middle or high school eventhough their kids don't attend those schools.  In my opinion, if they can't go to school with those kids, they can't play sports with them.  I am a public school teacher, so maybe I am a little bias.  I think one thing that would help our schools today is parental support and involvement. 
This is another thing that makes my blood boil!  If  8  hours a day is not enough... then there is a problem!  I had my kids in public school for awhile and when they started coming home with 2 hours worth of homework in grade school and I saw that it was just a bunch of "busy work", I knew I could do better! 

Yes, I may be college educated and I have had tons of classes related to child development and education... but I have seen other homeschool moms who are not college educated who do as great of a job or even better than I do with homeschooling. 

The whole idea that moms can nurture their children, teach them to talk, potty train them, take them through the terrible twos, etc. and CANNOT continue the progression of teaching them reading, writing and arithmetic (when the curriculum lays it out for you step by step) is just absolutely the most one-sided, ludicrous thing I have ever heard. 

Do we really have so many public schooled zombies in our society that are just programmed to think like they are told to think?
 
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November 24, 2006, 3:15 pm PST

Home Schooling for individual excellence

My sons, now ages 21 and 16, were each homeschooled, along with periods in public and private schools, My 21yo went from homeschooling high school (his choice) to NYU Film School, one of the most selective schools in the country. My 16yo, homeschooled since the fourth grade (at his choice), has already visited prospective colleges, and scored high enough on his SATs, last year at age 15, to qualify. It is always the parents who are behind every child's success, whether they are in school or homeschooled. As homeschoolers, my kids attended local college classes, museum classes, internships, and tons of group activities. If they had wanted school I would have been happy to send them, but homeschooling gave them every choice and every freedom, and resulted in an individualized education that not even a private school could have offered. Check out how great NYC is to homeschool at HomeschoolNYC (.com).
 
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November 24, 2006, 3:15 pm PST

Non-schooling Success Story


We have a one-size-fits-all attitude in this country when it comes to school, and while it may work just fine for many children, it not only doesn't work, but is absolute hell for many others. We sent our son to public school through the 7th grade. He started playing guitar at 5, and was also highly artistically inclined, but had no interest at all in sports. He never started any trouble, though he was always blamed when trouble found him. With the exception of the first grade, his teachers were indifferent, biased toward the more athletic boys, and in a couple of cases, downright cruel. And the principles always sided with the teachers. Two-thirds of the way through the 7th grade the school "resource officer" had him arrested for something we had proof he didn't do, and that was backed up by the kid that did it (and that didn't even take place on school property). The principal, an automaton that appeared to us to be medicated, suspended him for long enough to damage his borderline grades to the extent that we were told he would have to repeat the grade (while the kid that did it was expelled and provided, by the city, with home tutoring so he could finish the year). Our child may have been a little inattentive, a little too talkative, much more inspired by art and music than traditional subjects (though he got mostly A's up until the 7th grade), but he was only a discipline problem for those who didn't have the patience for, or any understanding of, such children. We decided it was time to get him the heck out of there, and only wish we'd done it sooner.

We also used the eclectic or non-school system. He learned about history, science, politics, math, the arts, and everything else, all day, every day. He is now 18, an incredible musician, music producer, and artist, and in the midst of starting a multi-media corporation, with a roster of talent (in music, video, and visual arts), and the respect of people in the music business decades older than he is. He is confident, secure, well rounded, and disciplined in those things he's pursuing. He voted in the election, knows all about current events, and can express his opinions intelligently. He's socially well adjusted, can take or leave having a girlfriend, and has no need to prove his manhood. And we truly believe that had we left him in school, he'd be in jail or dead by now.

From the first day we deliver our children into the hands of our public school system they are told that if they don't succeed, they will be a failure in life. And this warped concept is constantly reinforced by everything they are exposed to. The message in America is that those who don't go to college are losers. That education is the only route to success. Without it, you're doomed. The fact is, most people never use a bit of the information they're forced to learn in school. And many walk away so sick of learning that they never crack another non-fiction book the rest of their lives. While my kid, and many of the home schooled kids, have a love for learning new things and acquiring knowledge that they'll have for the rest of their lives. If you, too, have a kid that's not thriving in school, please don't be intimidated.Taking our son out of school was the best thing we could have done for him. And it may be the best thing for your child, too.
 
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November 24, 2006, 3:15 pm PST

The Benefits of a Public Education

  Dear Dr Phil,

 

I want to agree with a statement you  made on today's show regarding the fact that the impact of learning a particular subject from a qualified teacher is so important.  My husband is a 7th grade Math Teacher in Va Beach, VA.  First of all math is one of the most disliked subject that is a required subject taught in school. My husband not only makes math fun and seeks ways to make sure that each student in his unique way understands the premise he is teaching.  He deals with extremes, from parents who think their child should be grounded for making a 99.5 instead of a 100 to parents who get upset when their child uses profound or abusive language and in the parent -teacher conference, the 4 letter words are cut loose like leaves in the fall. 

 

My husband goes above and beyond to make math fun.  He does things such as at Halloween, hanging fake spiders from the ceiling and asking the children to find the correct angle by using string and rulers.  He goes to garage sales looking for car race sets, trains, bicycle wheels etc to use to get the point across about distance, speed, time ratios etc.  He has his classroom every year pick a stock they must follow this stock for a certain period of time, he has the stock room bell to start biding etc. By the end of the 9 weeks they need to calculate whether they made money or lost it. 

 

This is not the only indication that he is a good teaching wishing to teach kids things that not just from the book, but things that they will use every single day irregardless of their particular occupation.  He has students that come back to see him every year, even after graduation.  He even has students who have married and their children are now of age and they request him as their teacher.  The majority of his faculty request their children be in his class etc.  You get the picture.

 

What I am trying to say is that there are a lot of teachers who do not just teach the books.  They teach life lessons and the children do learn to deal with the pressures of every day life that they will have to deal with in the real world.  Unless those parents who unschool their children plan on supporting those children and retaining them under their roof forever, they need to learn how to deal with life's ever changing lessons.

 

I know you will probably never even read this, but it gave me great pleasure just to send this message out to whomever may read this and maybe it will make a difference to someone. 

 

Sincerely,

 

Janet Dunn

 

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