Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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November 25, 2006, 3:32 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: debl70

You are right we as a whole are blessed and can be proud to know that all the children have the resource of an education. Unfortunately that resource does not always benefit our children. I feel for the students who may live in more rural areas that may be hard to draw good teachers or big cities that may be overcrowded and understaffed. I don't want to sound as if the teachers who take on the roles for those schools are not good enough for these kids. They are likely working extra hard to meet their demands. I think in many ways they have their hands tied to budget constraints and administrative red tape. But we are a country that believe it or not has to have commercials telling us that children in our country are going hungry on a regular basis. That seems unreal for me. One of the richest nations in the world and we still can't get it all right.  On Oprah I watched a show on different school systems, even ones not far geographically from each other, and the huge differences between them. Socio-economics shouldn't determine our children's education. If it is meant to be free for all shouldn't also be good for all.
What the Oprah show failed to mention was the case of the Kansas City, MO district, which sunk billions of dollars into an inner-city school district - building a school to rival that of the 'burbs, complete with the Olympic-sized swimming pools, atriums, kids taxking taxis to school so they wouldn't have to be bused, etc.

Want to know what happened?  The inner-city kids lost use of the pool because students tried to drown each other.  The expensive computers and AV equipment was stolen or vadalized by students.

These kids didn't have the respect for their school that some children are taught at home.  Teaching begins in infancy and doesn't stop - unfortunately there is no way to compensate for uninvolved or outright bad parenting.  Did you notice that the mother on that show was surprised at the state of her daughter's high school?  Hello?!?  Why wasn't the natural follow-up question to her, "WHY have you never set foot into your daughter's school, that this should all come as a shock to you now?"  Socio-economics was not the problem - uninvolved parents and students who, overall, didn't care enough about their environment to not vandalize it were the problem.

Money isn't the answer, and neither is expensive schools outfitted with the latest and greatest.  Teaching begins in the home.  Many parents just exercise their LEGAL right to continue providing that education at home.
 
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November 25, 2006, 3:34 pm PST

College entry answers-

Quote From: djrred_8

I am not a home-schooler parent.  But I believe in my county that home-schoolers are tested each 9-weeks to see if they are on the level in which they are to be.  This is done thru our school system; and I am not sure who pays for it - my guess that it is our school system.  Why should they be tested?  When home-schoolers go to college - how are they accredited?  Do they get special allowances from colleges/universities to enter?  I am asking, I don't know,  But I think they need to be tested on a continued basis to have their accreditation for college.

To answer this question, most homeschoolers have no problems entering college. They take the placement testing and SAT just like anyone else. They have transcripts that the homeschool educator prepares from the records that are kept. Many homeschool children are finding it easier to enter college early as a dual enrolled student. My 15 yr old is in college already as a dual enrolled student and all of his classes are taken at the college now.  By the time he finishes homeschool High School he will have more than a couple of years of college completed.  As for testing,  I pay for annual testing myself for our children. It averages about  $300 per year for an accredited state teacher to come to our house and administer the Stanford Acheivement Test. I could have the children take the state test for free but I feel it isn't as comprehensive a test as the SAT, which is a national test and has a reputation for being a better measure of ability.

 
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November 25, 2006, 3:37 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Does anybody really care how any type of schooling will affect their child directly? I'm sure they do, but it doesn't sound like it. You have to do what's best for each individual child, not what's best for you. I'm not saying any of you do that, but Some children thrive in homeschool, some thrive in PS, you all see that but don't seem to get it. Don't force your child into doing what you want for any reason, and don't homeschool them just because your afraid something will happen. I mean your the parents, and you want to protect them, that's great, you don't want them into drugs, drinking, sex and all of that. Well then, be their parents! Don't keep them away from school, teach them right from wrong, and good from bad! Teach them to make good decisions, don't take the easy way out, you need to teach them these things, and not just pretend they won't happen. And lastly, Dr. Phil talked about how he hated school, I think it's a parent's responsibility, to get to the bottom of why their child may not like their schooling situation. Maybe it can be solved simply, but you need to take it seriously, many of you said homeschool isn't for everyone, and neither is public, so if your child says they hate school or homeschool maybe you need to think things over more.
 
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November 25, 2006, 3:37 pm PST

Homeschooling older children

 I was relatively new to homeschooling last year.  My nephew, then 14, had a medublastoma brain tumor at age 4.  Due to radiation and chemo, his short term memory and hearing had been damaged.  Even though he had an IEP, the school still did not work to find best methods for him.  After watching him gradually spiral down emotionally and academically over 2 years, my sister and I said - There has got to be another way.  I found a co-op group in my area.  He goes to school one day a week, and then completes the assignments and work throughout the week.  He is still learning how to be responsible, time management, and how to meet different expectations of different teachers.  Which, can be difficult for many home-schoolers when they do pursue other means of education.  I know this, because I teach at the co-op.  He now is achieving at C or better, and can look people in the eye now.   As said previously there is no cookie cutter for everyone.  This system works great for him.  He has the entire week to process the information, and not just be piled on more and more every day, getting farther behind.  And they complete the same, if not more than students in a public school.
I think that when you are completely one sided, you tend to not even try to see the benefits of any other point of view.  I wasn't necessarily pro-homeschooling, but not against it either.  Open up and listen.  Many of us want the same for our kids, independent, self-supporting, well rounded children.  The methods are just different. 
 

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November 25, 2006, 3:40 pm PST

what????

Quote From: slick65

    apparently you were brought up a lot different than i was.  i don't feel that children should be home doing nothing grow up being not as smart as children that go to school.  i went to grammar school, high school and some college and i feel that i am pretty smart about the world and other things. 
 Have you read any of the posts from homeschoolers on this board at all?   Most of their children are active in a full schedule of activities and the ones who are old enough are attending college, many of which are on academic scholarships.  Anyone who is the least bit familiar with this subject knows that colleges are actively recruiting homeschooled students across the whole country.   The poster you responded to didn't say anything like that so I am assuming you are referring to the practice of homeschooling in general.
 Also, you may be pretty smart about "the world" but not much about written communication.  You could be a professional author but it doesn't matter if  your post is hard to understand.  The fact that it is on  the internet is no excuse.
The fact that you refer to 'grammar school' suggests that you went some time ago.  You would be shocked at the difference between school as it was years ago, compared to how it is now.  Parents often feel that their children's education is at stake and make the decision to homeschool out of sheer necessity.  Learn a bit more about a subject before you post on it.
 
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November 25, 2006, 3:53 pm PST

Home schooled

   I am a parent who home schooled her daughter for grades 6-12.  In my opinion, my daughter receieved a better education than in the public school.  When I pulled her out of the public school after 5th grade, she could not spell, was in the 25th percentile for reading and could not add or subtract, because of the methods the school used in teaching.  After one year of home schooling her reading jumped to the 95th percentile on the standardized test.

In our state, standardized tests are required every year.  My daughter took the SAT and did well on it.  She has thrived in home schooling and socialization was not a problem at all.

I believe that parents can often be better teachers of their children than public school teachers.  I say this because parents are aware of how their child learns.  A public school teacher is locked into particular curriculum and must teach that regardless of  the learning styles of the children that are present.  A home school parent can tailor  the lessons and/or curriculum to match their children's learning styles.

My daughter is in her first year of college and is doing very well.  She is not afraid to make mistakes or ask questions in class, as are many of her public schooled peers.  She has taken the initiative to start a deaf awareness group on campus.  She is tutoring other students.  The major difference I see between my daughter and her public schooled peers, is that she has a focus and knows what her goals are and has a plan as to how to achieve her goals.  Many of her peers are in college, not knowing why they are there and what they want to accomplish in their lives.

As a home schooling parent, I believe the burden of responsibility lies with the parent to insure that their children are receiving the type of  instruction that will prepare their children for leading a productive and fulfilling life and being able to be involved in the world around him/her.


 

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November 25, 2006, 4:06 pm PST

disagree with your statement

Quote From: elffie

I am not going to homeschool, I don't think it will benefit MY children.  I don't think it would be healthy for them to be with me all day, they need to get out and be with other kids their age in an environment that will support that.  Plus, I want them to get the best education they can get, even if that means public schools.  There are lots of Merit schools in the town my children will be going to and the kids score very high on their tests. 

 

The only difference I see between Public and Private schools is the cost.  Also, that some private schools are religious based.  You can find the same classes in public school without the cost.  I don't think we need to push our children academically, and honestly I think it's a little too much to have a kindergardner doing 3rd grade work.  Now, if they child is capable of doing it, then so be it, but I do not think it's wise to push kids while they are so young.

 

There is bullying and crime if private school as well.  I had a friend that went to a Christian private school and the kids there did drugs and had sex on the property!  Same thing that was going on in the public school system.

 

I don't think homeschooling really teaches responsibility.  Some of the time it is not structured and it is only for a couple hours a day.  Going out of the house to school reinforces responsibility and teaching the student to be liable for their actions.  Sure, there were a few days when I didn't want to go to school, but I could not have stayed home.  I would not be socially mature, but that is me, it could be different for others.  Plus, leaving home to go to school prepared me for the real world, where you leave your house and you do what you have to do, even if you don't like it.

 

So it looks like public schooling for my kids. 

I have to disagree with your last paragraph about homeschooling.  It is obviously a thought from someone who does not homeschool.  I have 3 children ages 13, 5 and 3.  My oldest attended a parochial school  for elementary education and is now in a public middle school.  We have absolutely no issues with him and his schooling.  We have decided to homeschool our 2 younger children, however.  We never considered it with our oldest but now that we have spent a year researching homeschooling we have decided to do it for our last 2.  We have no complaints about our oldest's education but feel that if we can provide an even better education for our other 2 why not do it?  We are in our first year and absolutely love it!

 

You said homeschooling does not teach responsibilty.  I beg to differ.  Because I  have more time with my kids, I do much more with the younger 2 to teach them responsibility.  They have more responsibility at home than the other one did.  And my day and theirs is extremely structured although they do have more play time than a child attending a school.  I spend time every weekend writing my lesson plans for the week.  Homeschooling is not just  a hit or miss kind of thing.  Yes, there may be some who do unschooling and do not structure so much but for the most part homeschoolers I know do structure their day.  They have ways of incorporating their daily routines into schooling and work on a schedule.  My daughter is learning so much more already than she would in school.  I know this because I have a child in school.  I researched the social aspect of it and I found studies that suggest that homeschooled kids are more socialized than schooled kids because homeschooled children are not isolated with only children their own age.  They are socialized with children and adults of all ages.  Also, homeschooled kids are not isolated in their houses.  We have a group of 64 families in our homeschool group and we have co-ops together with classroom situations(latin, art, research, anatomy, etc) weekly, club days monthly, field trips, parent support groups, yearbook staff, etc.....  We attend conventions and informative meetings which help us choose our curriculum.  Again, it is not a hit or miss type of thing for most.

 

In summary, many homeschoolers are not against public schools but have chosen homeschooling because it seems to fit their families best.  You will not hear most of us put down schools.  We do not generally think people who choose schools are wrong.  They are  just choosing, like us, what is best for their families.  Likewise, we would like others who choose schools to not look down on us and accept that what is best for one is not necessarily best for another.  Most homeschoolers belong to support groups like mine and their kids are very socialized.  Our days are structured and very productive.  Dr. Phil did not represent homeschoolers completeyl.  His guests only represented a small portion of homeschoolers.  It is a shame, but I have learned not to volunteer the fact that I homeschool because I get tired of hearing from those who know nothing about it telling me what I should be careful about.  Choosing to homeschool for most is a well thought out decision based on gathering lots of information and making educated choices.

 
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November 25, 2006, 4:42 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: lactivist7

Just like all of the congress members who go to Washington DC and put THEIR kids in private schools, but the poor kids are stuck in the  government schools.  And since these same congress members are afraid to vote for school vouchers, those of us that cannot afford $20k a year for prep school are left with only 2 options... homeschool or institutionalization. 

Gee!  What I could even do with the 6k + per child the public school would get for my 6 kids.... I could have one HIGH TECH classroom and a full library for 36k a year!  Not to mention private tutors and outside lessons galore!
Have you looked into private schools?  They do offer a wide range of scholarships on many different variables.  Not only income.  If you were interested in private schools as an option, but felt that you couldn't afford it and haven't checked into it, try looking at some of teh scholarship based programs.
 
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November 25, 2006, 4:51 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

While watching the Dr. Phil segment on education last night I was disappointed that there were no statistics given about homeschooling vs. traditional education.  Statistics have shown that homeschooled students are more likely to go to college and graduate from that college than public schooled students.  Studies have also shown that homeschoolers typically score quite a bit higher on the SAT and are more likely to become actively involved in their community than students who are in a public educated setting as well as a private institution.  While I agree that homeschooling is not for everyone and I do not agree with unschooling, I do feel that homeschooling has been the best solution for educating my children.

 

I am the very proud mom of a 13 year old young man who did go to a traditional school through the 3rd grade- we are now in our 5th year homeschooling him and do not plan to send him back to "school" unless he decides that is what he wants to do.  He was struggling in math, so I decided to bring him home for the 4th grade to attempt to find out just what he was having difficulty with and then I planned to put him back in school for the 5th grade.  He not only caught up to where he was expected to be, but at the end of our first year of homeschooling he tested 2 grade levels ahead.  Why? I think it is  because during that year my son got one- on-one attention from me and until he understood  the concept we were studying we did not move on to anything else.   Needless to say, he did not go back to traditional school for the 5th grade.

 

He is now in the 8th grade and outlining his plans for the future.  He plans to go to college for marine biology and has already begun doing research to see who has the best program and has contacted them to ask what subjects he needs to concetrate on to make sure he is prepared for college classes.  He is given the option each year to go back to school and every year is the same- he chooses to stay home.  Between now a graduation he may change his career goal and he may choose to go back to traditional education, but we are so proud of the fact that he has a goal in mind for his future and my husband and I encourage him and support him in whatever he chooses to do.

 

My daughter, who chose to go to a private school this year, is so far ahead of her classmates  that the teacher has had to give her extra work just to pose a challenge for her.  I'm not saying that I'm smarter than anyone else, but I do feel that the personal attention my daughter got from me while she homeschooled really made a difference in her academic achievement.

 

I am personally tired of defending my right to educate my children the way my husband and I see as the best solution for us.  I do not belittle someone for sending their child to public school and would appreciate the same consideration.  My son is very well socialized with other children his own age, most of them public schooled children, and shows absolutely no sign of feeling "left out" by being homeschooled.  He is proud of the fact that he is homeschooled and I am proud to be such a big part of his education!

 

 
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November 25, 2006, 4:55 pm PST

My two cents

I listened with optimism about the unschooling.  What a disappointment?  I thought that there might be some sort of an educational goal.  What a disservice to these children?  What they don't begin to understand is life does not always get to go their way.   These parents don't have rules.  So what happens when they are adults and make a choice to speed and then they get caught?  What about experimenting with drugs?  These are their choices?!?  I don't get it.  These children also part of team sports?  How do they understand the concept of rules?  I think every child deserves an education.  If you don't agree with homeschooling by definition or public/private school.  Focus on a subject an do a thematic unit so they fully understand an item of interest instead of answering a simple question and moving on.  A child may think they have a full understanding through a simple explanation, but are missing out on so much more.  Sometimes learning how to adapt to an environment is one of the best parts of learning.
 
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