Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

My family (2 boys 1st grade and 5th grade) uses Abeka.  It is a great program, my kids use the dvd program. and we love it.  I also have two smaller boys so this works well for us.  They also have a regular program where you just get the text books for yourself and you child (K4-12) and it comes with a curriculum so you know exactly what to do on a day to day basis.  It is idiot proof!!!!! 

Good luck!  Let me know if you have any other questions!

Good luck!

The concepts of either home or public school (we won't even speak about "unschooling"!) seems to be an either or type of situation.  I am very frustrated with public school myself and have chosen to take my kids out.  But I was worried about my ability to teach them as well as the professional teachers could.  So I found a wonderful compromise!  I found a public, home based school!  It is called K12 and it is a free, public school with total hands on from parents.  I don't feel alone, I don't have to wonder if my kids are learning what they are supposed to, I just follow the program, I have a teacher that works with me and my kids, and my kids have social interaction that the school sets up through all kinds of different programs.  This is definitely for parents who want to have more to do with their kids schooling, without feeling pushed away or scared of the regular brick and mortar schools.  An excellent merging of public and home schooling in my book!  Check it out at www.k12.com if you are an interested parent.

I'm so glad you've found a way to make the schooling issue work for you and your children.  Although I'm a proponent of public schools, I'm curious about the term 'radical unschooler'.  What does that mean to you?  Was that a recent decision, or did you always plan to be a radical unschooler?  Does your state recognize your educational choices?  What about required state testing, diploma, etc.? 

My choice has been to remain a classroom teacher who enjoys the same holidays as my public schooled son.  If I'm not willing to try to improve public schools, I have nothing to complain about.   Am a product of public schools from k - doctorate.  W/o child support from my my ex-husband (he's lives abroad with his new family),  I must work, and I love teaching.  During the off time son and I have wonderful learning experiences together, esp. traveling. 

I was very disappointed that Dr. Phil's show highlighted only white, in-tact families.  The show could have been so much more enlightening had families such as yours been highlighted.  Or, how single moms who don't hold doctorates manage to homeschool their children.  Or, why people of color refuse to send their children to public schools.  As the show was presented, I felt it was mono-cultural, which rings hollow to me in the context of the great school debate. 

Best wishes for continued success.   

1. your children are alowed to learn their beliefs - as history, as sociology, etc, but not as the one and only moral code to believe in public school.   They can learn about your beliefs at home in in church.  How could the public schools teach your personal moral beliefs as correct?  What about every other moral system?  Wouldn't they protest that their beliefs are the correct ones to teach?  That's why the public schools should not teach any religious beliefs.  that's your job.. 

2.  I do teach my kids EVERYTHING about STDs and sex.  But many people can't do it.  Many feel too repressed and embarrassed as a result of religious indoctrination.  Many don't understand why innoculations are given, but the schools teach about the  science of preventing infectious diseases because it's in the public interest.  Similarly, they should teach the facts of life (how it happens, not why or when) to have an educated population that knows how to prevent the spread of disease.

3.  Abstinence does NOT equal religious.  But it's only one way to prevent disease and should be taught along with other methods.

4.  I think intelligent design should be taught as part of a history of religions belief.  It does not belong in a science course because it has no scientific foundation.

For many students, the public school is an awesome place. I am so thankful for our schools and teachers. I think society would be deplorable if it weren't for public schools. Some children are given many opportunities they wouldn't otherwise get. BUT.... public school isn't best for every child. I understand what you are saying about laziness but it is NOT that simple. Many children need to learn in differnt ways. I have a son (6th grade)who is currently in public school - has been since  age 4 (preschool) . He does not thrive in the public school environment. It is NOT laziness nor a learning disability. His teachers through the years have all complimented his effort. None the less he finds most subjects difficult. He does better with one on one instruction. I have no doubt in my mind that if I had home schooled him he would have done much better and would have a more solid, basic foundation. If I knew then what I know now I would have done things differently. I have been learning/researching the home school option and my youngest child will not attend public school until around 5th grade or so. I am contemplating wether or not to continue public education with my middle child.

And to everyone else who has made the argument that we (uneducated) parents aren't qualified to teach our kids....I don't know about the rest of you but when my children bring homework home and we sit for hours at night I am in fact teaching them anyhow.  My son often has no clue what he is supposed to do and I have to TEACH him. A parent who chooses to home school doesn't usually jump into it blindly.  I'm sure theer are some who aren't doing a great job but the same is true with teachers.

It is a PARENT'S responsibility to educate our children. If you choose to use the service of a public school to do that job for you then fine. For those who take on the huge task...bravo!  If an adult were in a job that he or she hated and didn't understand what was required would we expect them to stay with it for many years? Or would we look for a better alternative?

I said.....If you do not live in one of the state I mentioned....you will have to teach the lessons required; do the required testing and turn it into the state you live; record your child work, progress, grades, and what you taught; have qualifications; teach a certain amount of instruction hours; and be approved by a board. SOME states require all this to be done and SOME do not. If you live in a state were one or more of those is a requirement AND you do not follow the required home schooling laws....you are breaking the law.

How as an unschooler (IF you happen to live in a state with major laws for homeschooling) can you be following the law if none of the above is done. The unschooling family on Dr. Phil...UNLESS they live in a very relaxed state like one I mentioned......is breaking the law.

As I said before...I am not a lawyer; I just have paralegal college education.  

"What do you think it means to be "educated?"

  In my opinion, this means having working knowledge in an array of basic subjects- math, science, literature, language, reading, social studies, etc.  Yes, having knowledge in different things means -in my opinion -being well rounded or having a well rounded education.  However, unless you live in China, learning Chinese at age 5 is no more useful than some of the things homeschoolers claim ridiculous in a PS environment.  Why then if they learn certain knowledge in a HS environment -like Chinese- is it considered enriching but in a PS environment it is cruel, useless,  and unnecesary?  I have no doubts that a homeschool/unschool environment can be fun and enriching.  I just don't think this continually fun and carefree place is what the real world will be like.  I think a lot- not all- homeschoolers/unschoolers have their own agenda.  The majority that go on TV and state their case almost always have had some type of unpleasant experience within the PS system.  Unfortunately, the world will not tailor or create an environment that works for every person.  Maybe teaching our young to adapt in an imperfect world might be more practical.  Teaching them to overcome weakness and work through struggles to gain a true sense of accomplishment might be beneficial in adult years.  Yes, I believe that education is important in today's world.  Education, however, doesn't guarantee that children will be well-liked and respected.  To "make it" in life means  more than having a lot of knowledge.  There are things involved like character, integrity,  and honesty to name a few.   I do not feel the PS system is responsible to teach these things- that is my job as a parent.  I do feel parents expect these things from PS and that is a shame.  It is a conjunction with home life that makes a child successful in ANY environment.  For example, I regularly use what my son has learned in school to apply in real life.  I am in the classroom each week.  I volunteer time and money to fund the school's PTA and other organizations.  I show my son his school is important. 

That said, as much as I try to appreciate homeschoolers/unschoolers I don't think public schoolers received the same back.  That , to me, is teaching intolerance and discrimination.   There is an extreme sense of arrogance and superiority in the choice to unschool/homeschool.  This was seen on the show with the statement of "..my unschooler will hire your honor student."  To me, this just shows that an unschooler has ideas but no discipline to implement them to run a functional, profitable business.  Again, learning Chinese is only useful in China- the same concept applies here.  Many kids can be taught a multitude of things but without discipline, structure and actual implementation in everyday life the knowledge is nothing more than a feather in their hat.  I hope you see what I am trying to point out.  There are many things homeschoolers/unschoolers cannot seem to piece together for a cohesive theory.  They don't want to be questioned or challenged in their decision.  I have always thought that if you don't want to be questioned then maybe you shouldn't question others...just a thought. 

There are many "positives" about public schools that have been missed in these postings and therefore missed by those supporting home or un-schooling. As parents we are so used to seeing our children through loving eyes that we can miss concerns skilled educators can see primarily because they have seen so many other children. I taught for 30 years and also raised two children. It was easy for me to see children's learning problems that parents missed. I could spot those with language delays or those with handedness issues; those with attention deficits or those with discipline problems; those that could read like the wind yet couldn't comprehend; those who had perception problems or socializing issues. The lists go on and on. But in addition to recognizing problems, educators also know what to do about them or where to go for help.

Many voices on this website have mentioned chosing curriculum for their children, yet none have mentioned studying teaching methods, brain research, diagnosing learning disorders, studying cognitive development, issues of administering or interpreting tests, choosing tests that measure what we want to learn about a student. Granted, there are some lemons out there in the public teaching field, but there are also lemons in the home and un-scholling arenas. Parents need to visit public schools throughout their communities to see the positive changes that have been made in education since they were in school. Educators are much more aware of special needs and are mandated to adjust to them. Educators and parents are a team in support of children. May I also suggest that parents log on to their state's department of education website to see what is cooking in public education.

(And speaking of websites, I caution everyone who uses the Internet for research: just because it's there doesn't mean it's accurate or valid. Many of my students were surprised to find that out while doing research projects)

Our world is changing and violence appears in places no one ever thought possible: post offices, fast food establishments, churches, busses, airplanes and yes, schools. I was lucky to work in a district that practiced safety measures - earthquake safety, intruder safety and lock down procedures, parent notification in emergencies, child protective mandates. We were trained to handle these things, yet I wonder whether fast food employess or church personnel or other public entities have the same practices. I say this because there were posted concerns about safety in schools. Inquire about methods used in your community's schools so you can comment based on information rather than fear.

It is clear that each writer wants what is best for his/her child. Don't ignore public schools just because you had a bad experience in yours. We all have had bad school experiences, but have also had bad salespeople and friend and family experiences. We have also all had public school teachers who inspired and guided us. What's that expression: "One bad apple doesn't spoil the bunch?" (or something like that!)

Thanks for reading my thoughts!

Why is visiting several homeschools necessary and only one public school makes or breaks most decisions to homeschool?  I know homeschoolers who  have only visited one PS and didn't like the swings or the classroom color and made their decision based on that.  What you speak of, in my opinion, is very true of homeschoolers not those who choose a public school.  Yes, my area has fantastic public schools and also a lot of homeschool options and everything in between.  So, when I say something negative it is based on what I see in my own backyard.  As I have said before, most homeschoolers DO NOT have the continual training demanded by the state of public school teachers.  I find this interesting.  I will continue to hold the opinion that although a homeschool environment can be fun and enriching I do not think the carefree environment is beneficial for all kids.  My son absolutely without a doubt thrives on the structure and discipline he receives in his public school.  Some children may not.  My son is very social and loves the interaction a public school provides- some kids are shy and can only identify with others like themselves.  To each his own.  Please don't make assumptions before you have done your homework.