Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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December 3, 2006, 3:22 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: omgwhocares

Well, you are the minority then if you believe that your children are not at all sheltered from negative things.  

 

I didn't say not at all, just no more than ps children. 

 

I am curious, what negative things have they had to deal with that you were not present for? 

 

I'm curious too, but I respect their privacy

 

Also, most HS/US I know as they do not censor TV- they just don't allow it. 

 

Not allowing would be censoring.  Are you sure you know unschoolers? 

 

So, what exactly do you do in Your World of Unschooling that you think doesn't exist in my child's life?  I'm truly curious. 

 

Since I don't know your child's life other than ps is a part of it... I'm confused that you ask, but I'll answer the best I can. 

 

All I can assume is that I have more time to do what I want.  There is so much to do in the world and spending time in school just isn't something necessary. 

 

At 11, my dd wrote a book and when i was told by a ps teacher relative that most kids that age don't accomplish so much, and presumed to believe that I had done something to make it happen.  But, I think it was just that dd had time.  Probably more kids would write books if they had the time. 

Also, most HS/US I know as they do not censor TV- they just don't allow it. 

 

I missed this in the original post and am too lazy to go search for it.

 

I can't speak for homeschoolers, but as radical unschoolers, we have no limits on TV.  And no, we don't censor it or use the V-chip or any other parental controls.

 
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December 3, 2006, 3:27 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

I think the couple on the show who radically unschool are going to raise lazy, selfish, unmotivated children and adults.

 

Disagree.  Imagine a hotel where radically unschooled teens are free to go where they choose and do what they want.  It's happened again and again at unschooling conferences.  Guess what?  The hotels want them back.  Anyone who has ever had a child (and a 5 year old) has likely experienced a few less-than-stellar moments, no matter what the parenting style.  I also know that articles in the media and TV shows can be edited to show what the producers want.

 

I haven't met Dayna's kids but mine are being raised the same way.  Got that million dollars?  I could use it to fund my retirement.  My kids don't feel that it's all about them.  They're coming from a place where their needs are met and respected (yes, many parents don't respect their kids' needs as legitimate.  I'm a product of the 'get over it' style of parenting, myself), and they, in turn, respect the needs of others.  Our house is more of a collaboration, where we all work together so all of our needs get met.  Including mine (I'm a single mom).  They're not sneaky, they don't backtalk, and their uncle (we live with my brother) likes having them around.  I'm sure he'd kick us out if they were obnoxious, unruly, self-centered brats who were trashing his house.

 

It's really sad that some parents don't see what bruised souls their raising by blaming, shaming, and punishing their children.

 

My ex-SIL had a sign hanging in her kitchen for her kids that read:  OBEDIENCE: Cheerfully, Immediately, Completely.  That, to me, is the ultimate in scary parenting.

their raising

 

ACK!!  A typo in my post!!!  That's what I get for trying to type with an electric guitar on my lap, trying to tune it and type at the same time.

 
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December 3, 2006, 3:36 pm PST

look out Montana!

Quote From: steiwhleur

I graduated from an upper-middle class high school in 1990.  I thought I had learned what needed to be learned so that I could go on to college.  WRONG!  In college I had to pay for REMEDIAL math classes!!! I was so angry.  But then I looked around at who was in my remedial class and they were all students from North Hills High School!!  I wanted to bill the high school for my remedial classes, but my parents said I should just drop it.  I wish I had sent the high school a bill.  Maybe it would have caused them to take another look at their sub-par cirriculum!!

 

That was all hapening 16 years ago!  I now live in New Mexico and the schools here are horrific.  Graduates can't read, write, do math, spell....nothing!  My niece is in the 9th grade and probably reads on a 4th grade level.  She can't spell correctly if her life depended on it...and it does.  No one wants to hire someone too stupid to spell or add or divide correctly.  And her speaking is just as bad.  She sounds like a dullard.  This will haunt her for the rest of her life.  People will assume she's an idiot, not the kind, sweet, beautiful girl that she has become.

 

New Mexico ranks 43rd out of 50 for our inadequate schooling, yet our govenor refuses to address it.  Yes he's trying to throw money at the problem, but we need to start requiring more from the teachers and principals before we can make such demands on our children.  New Mexico also has a "don't ask" policy about if a child is an illegal or an American citizen.  Therefore our schools are flooded with illegals who only speak Spanish.  This adds to the teachers' burden---the teachers must learn and teach Spanish to "accomodate" these illegals.  No wonder we rank so low!!  New Mexico is like a 3rd world country in many ways.

 

Home schooling sounds like the way to go so long as the parents meet all the required credentials and they are diligent about teaching at home.  Home schooled kids should have some kind of network so that they can be around like-aged kids.  That way they can learn the socialization skills needed out in the real world.

 

For our retirement we are looking to go to the mountains of Montana -- maybe we'll find some smart people like us up there!!

Have you ever been to a 3rd world country??  Just because there is an ethnically diverse population  in NM does not constitute a 3rd world Country!  I am a native of NM, and personally I am sick of people moving to NM  and putting down the culture, politics, and everything else you can think of...Please...do us all a favor.. why wait till retirement.. Montana needs you now.
 
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December 3, 2006, 3:51 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: wheeee

It'd be so nice if we all just had a list of pros and cons about homeschooling, unschooling, public schooling and private schooling wouldn't it?

 

:( I suppose one man's con is another man's pro.

This is very true.

For someone like me, who already stays at home with her child, the time that is consumed by home schooling wouldn't be a con.

But for someone like Kschmitz, who does have a full time job, staying home to home school would be a con.
 
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December 3, 2006, 5:49 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: wheeee

It'd be so nice if we all just had a list of pros and cons about homeschooling, unschooling, public schooling and private schooling wouldn't it?

 

:( I suppose one man's con is another man's pro.

I made a list once but the pros of public school were very few.  The cons for homeschooling so few.  The cost of private was not an option so we tried homeschooling.  We learned that all the stuff we had heard about homeschooling and assumed was true was actually BS and there went the cons.
 
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December 3, 2006, 6:17 pm PST

Unschooling

We are not unschoolers but I did want to make a point in regards to HOW we learn...  My DD just turned 2.  She is amazing.  I do not school her in any way, shape or form except she's around when I school her brother and her Daddy often reads a nightime story.  (That is the extent of us teaching to her.)  She can answer questions that many adults couldn't.  She knows almost as many spanish words as she does english words.  She can tell you the roots of many words and even recite spelling rules... just from hearing me teach her 2nd grade brother.  I am very very strongly against pushing a child to learn ANYTHING too early. When I first started to notice her learning so fast, I was freaked out but it is teaching me a lot about learning styles and abilities.  It has some to do with parenting, it has some to do with teachings but some children are cabable of learning where neither is present (parenting or teachings).

 
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December 3, 2006, 6:38 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: sneakers145

Your 9 month old understood the concept of "fragile"?  Maybe my daughter is behind, because this is a concept she is barely understanding at age 2.

 

Not right at 9 months, but by constant reinforcement.  Every time he handled something fragile.  Every time he wanted to press the button for the CD ROM drawer.  Praising him when he handled things gently (like the pets!).  They do get it.

 

I've found that by allowing them to satisfy their curiosity, they move on to something else.  Had I forbidden that CD-ROM drawer, I can bet that my tenacious toddler (and he is tenacious by all stretches of the imagination, LOL) he would have found some way to play with that drawer when I wasn't looking and may have even damaged it.  The forbidden fruit syndrome.  They seem to always want what they can't have.

I see. I understand that for the most part.

My thinking is, I have made a baby and brought them to my home...so in essence, this is my baby's home. So this home needs to be baby friendly. If something of mine breaks, it's because I wasn't watching her well enough, or because I wasn't smart enough to keep it out of her reach.

I see no point myself in yelling a child who does something like this wrong...because they aren't being malicious.
 
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December 3, 2006, 6:45 pm PST

In addition to my last post....

I forgot to add this in my last post..

 

They are just the negative reasons.. and they are just the ones that have been caught.. YIKES!

 

But to give you a little bit about us... some"positive" reasons.. We are a homeschooling family for 5 years now.  We have an only child, just turned 10 y.o boy in the 4th grade, and we are a very close family.  No, we are not hermits.  We do everything from play hockey, karate, orchestra,  field trips to just about everywhere... and we have alot of friends in our HS groups  where we get together weekly and do crafts, year books, parties, 4H meetings and more.

 

Our son can relate to a pre-schooler all the way to an adult.  Not just those in his age group.  We get up in the morning around 6am, and start school around 7:30 ish.  We cover all core subjects [Math, Language arts, Reading, writing, history and electives]  At the end of every year, we do an End of Grade [EOG] test, which he always tests above average.  We generally finish school around 12:30 or 1, and that is when I get my things done around the house and our son goes out to play, or we do  something that was scheduled for that day.

 

No, he's not some little boy who dresses up in argyle socks with big glasses, and sits in the corner of the room reading Shakespeare.  He's the type of kid who adores Rod Brind'Amore ['Canes hockey], scrapes his knees climbing the front yard tree, and gets into mischief once in a while... He's your normal 10 y.o child that rolls his eyes to fractions, homework, and book reports, but we sit down, and get them done..  He learns responsibility with his work and at the same time, consequences.

 

We HS because we want to avoid the terrible influences that is in the schools.  I won't even go to "They took God out of schools", because the evidence in my previous post is a witness to that very fact...  We do NOT, however, keep our son in a bubble.  He's out there daily, rubbing elbows with the public school kids... He's more socialized than the PS kids.. because he has a well rounded environment.. not just the 4 walls of a class room.

 

Am I going all the way through? You bet'cha!  The blessings far out weigh the stressings, which it is stressful at times, I cannot deny...  But it's so worth it when your child looks you in the eye and says "Mom, Dad, Thank you for caring enough to HS me"...   He sees the news every night, and asks us where we think the next school shooting will be.. Now THAT'S SAD!

 

I can honestly say,  I have seen my share of "lazy" home schoolers, and not everyone can or should  homeshool.   It takes dedication and determination and you can seriously hurt your child if you are not dedicated and set goals for yourself.  You need to be loving yet forceful... and know that there will be days that you question why you do what you do... but when you see the fruit of your labor, it's definitely worth it.! :o)

 

Thanks for letting me share!

Melissa

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 
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December 3, 2006, 7:04 pm PST

Wanda Sanseri

Quote From: winterwarmth

Oh gosh, I keep getting John Taylor Gatto and John Holt confused!  John Holt died in 1985, so he'd not be a likely candidate for talk shows :)

However, Grace Llewellyn and John Taylor Gatto, Sandra Dodd, Wendy Prieznitz, etc  are still very much alive.

I would like to see this lady on the Dr. Phil show.  She can explain why so many public school kids cannot read well.  All of them are taught using the same method.  The method only works with particular types of learners so the kids who don't learn the same as the majority - they get left behind.  Parents have to step up and give the kid one-on-one time or hire a tutor to teach them to read.  It's sad to think what happens to the child in the house where the parents don't take the time.  I gotta hand it to the public schools though...the majority of kids do fine with phonics, the rest fall through the cracks, the majority is what's important to the school and THEIR own test scores.

 

http://swrtraining.screwlewse.com/id27.html

 

I believe that a lot of what is wrong with the government schools is that they cannot separate children by learning style/learning needs.  The one size fits all rule must go!  If you read the senate hearing speech, you'll understand what I mean.

 

I know that some teachers try to do this but it's not usually by learning style and it's only for short periods of time.  There are many learning styles but if they could create even 3 groups and teach children using different approaches, different methods, different curriculum - it could make all the difference.  Because of PC BS, it's impossible!  Because teachers are not the ones choosing the curriculum, it's impossible.  Those are two big issues that I feel make all the difference with kids in the government schools.  The other third would be lack of parenting and lack of time to properly parent.  That's just MY opinion based on what I've learned in my two years of homeschooling.

 

 

 
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December 3, 2006, 8:20 pm PST

you hit the nail on the head

Quote From: wheeee

It'd be so nice if we all just had a list of pros and cons about homeschooling, unschooling, public schooling and private schooling wouldn't it?

 

:( I suppose one man's con is another man's pro.

Very true and probably why there is a debate.  You say con, I say pro...
 
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