Topic : 11/24 Great School Debate

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Created on : Friday, November 17, 2006, 12:57:50 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Parents want the best for their children, but what’s the best way to educate them? Dr. Phil’s guests face off in a debate about whether to school, homeschool or unschool. Dana and her husband, Joe, call themselves radical unschoolers. They say education happens as a side effect of life, and they don’t believe in tests, curriculums or grades. Are their three kids learning what they need to know? Then, RaeAnn says public schools are death traps and wants to homeschool her children. Her husband, Steve, says their kids are safer at school than they are at home. Can this couple reach a compromise? Plus, Nicole feels like an outcast at 26. She says she hated being homeschooled, and couldn’t relate to other kids. Share your thoughts here.

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December 5, 2006, 4:16 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: eyeriss

I'm a parent and my son is still crawling but I definitely have thought about his future more and more.  I would love to be able to home school my son when it comes to that point, but am I qualified?  I believe in order for a parent to home school their child, you can't just think, "I think I can do it".  The next most important thing to a child's home life is their education.  You really have to know whether or not you can handle it and be able to teach them the elements that they need if you want them to have a decent education.  Unless you know or have learned all the fields that they are to study, then hey why not?  But sometimes, do you know enough?  What if your child has a higher level of learning than you thought?  What do you do?  You can't try to catch up.  When a child is put into public or private school, they can be advanced to a higher class.  If the child is being home schooled, what do you do then?  When I was in school, I did pretty good in almost all of my classes.  Math and depending what type of science, was my downfall.  If I am not confident in my own learning abilities in certain subjects, i'm not going to try and be their teacher.  I can be their teacher in other ways as every parent should be. 

But parents also homeschool their children because they worry about whether the schools really are safe.  The shootings in the past years and months have definitely made me more cautious but where is it really safe anymore?  You can't always be there 24/7 or else your child will never be able to be independent.  Everyone is their own person.  Even if you home school your child, they need to have some social interaction with people especially in their age group. 

I support the school system in their work to educate the children.  But I also give props to parents that have given their children an education thru homeschooling.  So I guess it all depends on us, the parents.  Whether we feel we are qualified for the job.

(apologies if this message appears twice, the connection was a bit funky)
Hi, and welcome!

This board has slowed down considerably, but you've asked quite a lot of questions that have been discussed here already, so if there are very few responses, that is why :)

These are common questions many parents have, and ask themselves when they consider homeschooling actually.  "Can I do it?" is a parent's biggest concern.  But only the parent can answer that.  For my own children, we see their learning as something we are involved in every day, from the day they were born, to the day they leave "the nest".  Many parents ask the question "can I teach?"  well, that's up to the parent.  But they often ignore the other question, "Can my child learn?" and the answer to that is a definite yes.  Compare newborns to 5 year olds and that's enough of an answer.

One thing about homeschooling, it does not necessarily mean the parent "teaches everything" (I''m mostly thinking of higher "grades") However, my confidence would have to be pretty shaky if I believed (for instance) I could not give my child a kindergarten education :) 

But for more advanced learning, if a child is zooming ahead of you in some cases, the child has most definitely tapped into their own innate desire to learn and has started to think for themselves what they need (one of the goals of homeschooling, right?  to be independent?) and will likely seek out the ways to learn what they need.  There are many ways to meet those needs.  It can be either a formal class, an on-line course, a private tutor, another homeschooling parent who is knowledgeable in a subject...  whichever form of progress said subject(s) would take would depend entirely on what both you and the child are comfortable with and feel you both need to facilitate the next challenge.

Now, school shooting are not an everyday occurence, and they are a tragedy, and my heart aches for everyone who had tragic losses in those incidents.

However, something to be concerned about is the every-day environment.  (as you said, your child is still very young) Does your child enjoy being around a lot of people?  Would the pressures and common complaints about public schools be something he could handle?  Or would it affect his desire/will/ability to concentrate at the subjects at hand?  Is his teacher someone he feels like there could be a good student/teacher relationship?  Do YOU like the teacher?  Do you like the structure of her classroom?  Has he made friends there or does he feel lonely? (being surrounded by 25 children is no guarantee against loneliness). 

Many of my friends have their children in school (we live in a great neighbourhood and the school is quite nice), and while many people might think homeschooling takes a lot of energy and involvement, so does public school, even with the fact that teachers are giving the material.  Many parents find that many things they wish they could be doing with family or lifestyle, instead ,tend to be put on the back-burner, to be involved with goings-on at school.  So, whether or not a parent chooses to homeschool, public school, private school (not much discussed on this forum), or unschool, parental involvement is the key.  In many senses you're almost as much the student as your child is :)

All kinds of things to consider.  So many choices in education, all of them valid, all of them do-able on various levels.

We chose to facilitate our children's learning at home because it was a good fit for our lives and our lifestyle.  Our children have their social needs met with the friends and people we associate in our neighbourhood and in our day to day lives, and I have every confidence that they won't be clinging to my legs saying "No Mommy!" when they are of age to want to leave the nest :) They don't behave that way now, and they exhibit more maturity every year, and I don't see that, barring catastrophic circumstances, changing :-)

Best of luck with your choices!
WW
 
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December 5, 2006, 7:58 am PST

unschool

Quote From: momofbrw

If you are asking if you should take on the job of raising them, I don't know, that would be a really hard decision.  But if you are asking if you can homeschool, you may surprise yourself if you try.  Can the 10 yr old read and write or are you saying he's been "unschooled"?  As far as the parents go - it sounds like they have some real issues that you didn't mention (substance abuse perhaps?).   One has to wonder why they don't have jobs or homes, there's a reason for it and often it could have been prevented but sometimes not.  The kids should not have to be raised in such an environment. Their needs are not being met, the parents are not parenting.

 

As far as legal issues, some states have grandparents laws, you should check to see if yours does.

 

Many children thrive when they live in a real home where things are consistant and they are free and comfortable knowing what the next day brings. 

Can the 10 yr old read and write or are you saying he's been "unschooled"? 

 

Are you saying unschoolers are  typically  unable to read at write at 10 years? Even though I've been watching this board the past week I honestly don't know much at all about the whole unschool process. I'm sure I could go back through the 3,000 posts and find some great info but.....;-) 

 
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December 5, 2006, 8:19 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: purplepenny

Yes, but a THREE year old is weaker than a grown woman. And a grown women aren't inherently weaker than a grown man. And the average difference in strength between a man and a woman is negligible when it comes to the power it takes to open a door.
You so don't understand what I am talking about. Physically not all women are weaker than some men. However, that isn't what I was talking about. God made us the weaker vessal because we need to be all different things to our husbands, children, and society. He made us feel something that most men don't. That is why women nurture and have the tendency to love differently. It makes me feel special when my husband takes the time to open the door for me. And I want my son to respect women in the same way. It is all about standards. Some people just have higher standards than others. It isn't about male vs. female. That is typical though in this society. And I don't need my 3 year old to open the door for me but I sure am proud of him when he does. Or when he holds the door for an elderly at the nursing home. Again just standards and respect.
 
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December 5, 2006, 8:46 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: tlc2225

Can the 10 yr old read and write or are you saying he's been "unschooled"? 

 

Are you saying unschoolers are  typically  unable to read at write at 10 years? Even though I've been watching this board the past week I honestly don't know much at all about the whole unschool process. I'm sure I could go back through the 3,000 posts and find some great info but.....;-) 

Well....

A brief recap about what unschooling is for us, and what it isn't.  It isn't "unparenting or neglect", it IS nurturing and guiding your children through developmentally appropriate stages in their learning.  Our children know how to read, including our younger two, who have never attended public school, because they wanted to know how to read, just like I do... (they've also been read to since they were in the womb ;))

The original poster's (The concerned grandparent whose children were living in a truck and had to be put in foster homes) concern to me didn't really seem to have much to do with appropriate school method, (IMO).  From the sounds of things, his/her grandchildren could have been taking dance lessons from Fred and Ginger themselves and wouldn't have succeeded given their poor home life and unsettlement and having nobody to count on. 

Once the kids have some stability and solid ground to walk on, they can be public schooled, homeschooled, private schooled, unschooled, taught by tapdancing monkeys or whatever as long as they're in a situation they can thrive in!


 
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December 5, 2006, 9:21 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: m_kbarker

You so don't understand what I am talking about. Physically not all women are weaker than some men. However, that isn't what I was talking about. God made us the weaker vessal because we need to be all different things to our husbands, children, and society. He made us feel something that most men don't. That is why women nurture and have the tendency to love differently. It makes me feel special when my husband takes the time to open the door for me. And I want my son to respect women in the same way. It is all about standards. Some people just have higher standards than others. It isn't about male vs. female. That is typical though in this society. And I don't need my 3 year old to open the door for me but I sure am proud of him when he does. Or when he holds the door for an elderly at the nursing home. Again just standards and respect.
Ok, well that's where you lose me. I'm an atheist.
 
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December 5, 2006, 9:54 am PST

Unschoolers Reading and Writing

Quote From: tlc2225

Can the 10 yr old read and write or are you saying he's been "unschooled"? 

 

Are you saying unschoolers are  typically  unable to read at write at 10 years? Even though I've been watching this board the past week I honestly don't know much at all about the whole unschool process. I'm sure I could go back through the 3,000 posts and find some great info but.....;-) 

Some unschoolers can read and write at age 10 and some can't. The vast majority of unschoolers I've known are reading and writing by then, but I've known a few that didn't read until 11 or 12. One of my kids could read before age 3, and the other was 8 before starting. I know one 13 year old who is just now a beginning reader. I also have a dear friend whose daughter didn't read until she was 14. That was some years ago - she's mostly grown up now.

Typically though, the kids that wait until they are older learn very quickly, and a few months after they become readers, you'd never be able to tell they didn't read at 5 or 6.
 
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December 5, 2006, 10:03 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: m_kbarker

You so don't understand what I am talking about. Physically not all women are weaker than some men. However, that isn't what I was talking about. God made us the weaker vessal because we need to be all different things to our husbands, children, and society. He made us feel something that most men don't. That is why women nurture and have the tendency to love differently. It makes me feel special when my husband takes the time to open the door for me. And I want my son to respect women in the same way. It is all about standards. Some people just have higher standards than others. It isn't about male vs. female. That is typical though in this society. And I don't need my 3 year old to open the door for me but I sure am proud of him when he does. Or when he holds the door for an elderly at the nursing home. Again just standards and respect.
BTW...I don't have low standards...I would be just as proud if my DAUGHTER held the door open for an elderly person. But women aren't ELDERLY people. You are comparing a capable woman with and elderly person.
 
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December 5, 2006, 10:23 am PST

Well Said

Quote From: rtempesta

I do not think that home schooling is for everyone nor do I believe that public schooling is either.  I think parents have a responsibility to do what will best benefit their child.  I have one child in public school and one that I home school.  While one does extremely well in the public school, the other does not.  I don't think it's fair to put all people in one box and say that is what's best for one is best for all.  It doesn't work that way anywhere else in the 'real' world. 

 

For those who have ailments - do they all take the same medication?  No, it depends on what ails them!  Does everyone take something for an ailment??  Not if they don't have an ailment!  Not everyone has the same learning style, abilities or disabilities.  You can't put all people in one room and teach them all the same way and expect them ALL to 'get it'.  Put all those alike (same learning styles, abilities and interests) in one room and teach them and they'll comprehend.  I'd like to see THAT happen in the public school system! 

 

And some parents don't have a choice but to send their child(ren) to public school.

 

I don't think anyone can tell anyone else what's best for the other's child and it be taken seriously.  This debate will never be resolved until we learn to accept each other's differences and accept that not everyone fits the same mold.

You have made a very good point, although I do believe home-schooling is the absolute best for anyone who can afford it and their schedules and personalities fit well together.  I have two grandchildren who are being home-schooled, one in Kindergarten and one in pre-school.  This decision was made in the children's best interest based on their personalities and their personal, spiritual, emotional, and mental well-beings.  Their parents adjusted their work schedules to fit the schooling schedule (they are fortunate to be able to) and they have purchased a very good curriculum.  Home schooling is not cheap and if done properly, it will meet the child's social needs as well as all the already mentioned areas.  The curriculum is such that the child definitely will learn as will the teaching parent.  I am excited each time my granddaughter (kindergarten) shows me her latest academics learned and also enjoy watching her dance recitals which is just one of her extra-curriculum events that keeps her socialized.  Socialization seems to be the main complaint I hear from those who do not understand what true quality home-schooling is.  This little girl was so shy that she would not even speak to those she knew when others might be watching.  Now she gets on stage and sings and dances which proves that even a home-schooled child can be socialized.  My pre-school grandson is not yet fully into the home-school schedule, but has learned so much already just from being within hearing range (and sometimes allowed to join in the activities when suitable).  I went to public school, my child went to public and private, and now I am seeing home-schooling first hand.  I love it. 

 

 
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December 5, 2006, 10:52 am PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: julie1418

I thought you were mimicking Sally Field's Oscar acceptance - You like me! You really like me!! Perhaps I am showing my age! smile

 

I hear you on the absurd blanket statements - had to deflect a few myself! I can disagree with you on some points without making it personal. I can't think of anyone with whom I agree 100% of the time on EVERY issue. It's a debate, not a war! LOL!

I thought you were mimicking Sally Field's Oscar acceptance - You like me! You really like me!! Perhaps I am showing my age! smile

 

You know, actually I was mimicking her Oscar acceptance. But, I couldn't remember the name of the actress who said those now nearly-famous words. I do now, thanks! Ya learn something new every day, huh?

 

 
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December 5, 2006, 12:19 pm PST

11/24 Great School Debate

Quote From: laderrick

Some unschoolers can read and write at age 10 and some can't. The vast majority of unschoolers I've known are reading and writing by then, but I've known a few that didn't read until 11 or 12. One of my kids could read before age 3, and the other was 8 before starting. I know one 13 year old who is just now a beginning reader. I also have a dear friend whose daughter didn't read until she was 14. That was some years ago - she's mostly grown up now.

Typically though, the kids that wait until they are older learn very quickly, and a few months after they become readers, you'd never be able to tell they didn't read at 5 or 6.
I personally feel that a child should be reading way before 10, regardless of how they are schooled, I know quite a few older kids  who cannot read and I find it quite sad. I have worked with kids who can barely sound out a word, why is it that it isn't imporant to start teaching kids to read at any early age? I really do not understand that. I love watching my 5 year old read, it amazes me that she has only  been in this world going on 6 years and she was able to learn this skill as well as my soon to 4 year old is doing well. They absolutely love books and their favorite pass time is to go to the library to pick out their favorite books and the excitement on my 5 year olds face and attitude because she can read a book on her own is awesome. I encourage all parents to start their kids young at reading, I feel reading is one of the most imporant things that a person should know and I feel the sooner the better, get tthem into the fun of reading at an early age. 10 just seems too old not to be able to read and it deosn't have to be forced, just encouraged and most will get it.
 
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