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Topic : 06/10 Deadly Kids

Number of Replies: 247
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Created on : Friday, October 12, 2007, 02:54:58 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/18/07) What if you feared your own child? Dr. Phil's guests say they worry that one day they may die at the hands of their offspring. Steven and Tori say Steven's 9-year-old son, Donovan, poisoned his siblings and then laced Tori's drink with aquarium cleaner. They say he laughed after his family members went to the hospital and has not shown remorse for his sinister acts. He's now in a treatment facility, but should Tori and Steven allow him back into their home once he's released? Then, Susie narrowly escaped death after her stepson tried to brutally kill her with a gun and then a knife. He's now behind bars, so why does she fear he will try to finish the job? And, Carrie and Lance fear their son, Michael, will be the next shocking murder headline. They say he threatened to cut his teacher's eyes out with a knife and kill his younger sister. When Michael becomes enraged, Carrie locks herself in the bedroom for fear of what he might do. Find out what Dr. Phil cameras caught on tape while at Carrie and Lance's house. And, why do the parents feel their son's behavior is influencing their daughter? What does Dr. Phil think is at the root of Michael's rage? Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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June 7, 2008, 2:42 pm CDT

Get Real

Quote From: bengaltiger

I am blaming all the adults in this child's life.  Not just the step mother.   
I am a step mother, and a damn good one at that.  When we got these 2 boys out of a foster home, they were the most feral things you had ever seen.  We used strict discipline first, with a lot of love and compassion.  We have had these boys for 5 years now, and they are the most well behaved and happy kids you have ever seen.  Children WANT discipline.  They want to KNOW someone CARES about them.  I'm sorry to get anyone's panties in a twist, but back when all the "do gooders' regarding child rearing stepped in and basically took away a parents right to discipline their child...they made a BIG BIG mistake. Yet one can understand why kids behave the way they do today.  Well, that's why.  Teach them respect, responsibility, and resourcefulness.  Step up to the plate and BE the parent, be the authority...not the "buddy" or "friend".  Children need a healthy fear of authority.  Todays kids have NONE.  50 years ago, you wouldn't see kids getting away with the crap they get away with...They would be punished, and it was no one else's business but your own.  And that's the way it should be.  No one cried abuse when they knew they got a whooping for doing something they shouldn't have done.  Kids today know they can, and they do.  My daughter, who is now 23, tried that when she was about 12. I got tired of her screaming at me because she wasn't getting her way, and so I took her by the shirt, and walked her to her room and gave her a little push into the room...she was in no way hurt, abused, or any such thing...she was just plain mad...so she threatened to call Social Services on me....I picked up the phone, I found the number and dialed it, and handed it to her.  I told her if she thought she was going to be better off living somewhere else, I'd help her pack.  She grabbed the phone and hung it up and went back in to her room.  Needless to say, she never tried to pull that crap on me again. So, I too, in a way blame the parents for not being the authority they have every right to be.  I paddled my kids butts in the middle of the store when they sat in the isle and screamed because I wouldn't buy them what they wanted.  I didn't care what people thought....these are MY children, and I wanted them to be civilized when they grew up...and they are.  My daughter has held 3 jobs since she was 16.  My son is now 28 and can do just about anything he puts his mind to...and now we have the 2 little ones...who I must say, are well on their way to becoming civilized, responsible, respectable and resourceful adults.
 
 
June 7, 2008, 5:11 pm CDT

Counting blessings

There are 2 very essential components required for one to have a decent future, 1)  FEAR - a fear of doing what is wrong, 2)  CONSCIENCE - a conscience to do what is right.

I can't even imagine how hopeless and helpless these families must feel.  It's topics like this that really open our hearts and eyes to the importance of reaching out, and there's Dr. Phil and his staff throwing a life line. 

After reading about this topic I am so ashamed of thinking my own problems were so monumental.  Now they seem like a grain of sand.  From now on when I come across a situation that seems too much to endure, I'll just picture Dr. Phil in front of me saying, "Are you serious!"

My prayers and faith are with all involved with every aspect of helping these children.  And for everyone else out there, COUNT EACH BLESSING AS THEY COME, as I do mine...Respectfully, Eloise

 
June 8, 2008, 9:19 am CDT

Deadly Kids or Uninformed Parents (& Society?)

As a parent of an internationally adopted child (Russia), I have learned a great deal in the past 10 years about children who have experienced trauma and neglect.  Although these children's behaviors are horrendous and scary, I have to ask the question...have they experienced some sort of trauma in their life?  Are they adopted into their current family?  Have they been through the trauma of a medical crisis, divorce or loss of loved one?  We all experience some sort of trauma in our lives...but some children experience trauma so severe that it creates behaviors we never imagined.  Our society is not "connecting the dots"!  We're putting so much "blame" on these "deadly kids" when in fact it is our own misunderstanding of post traumatic stress, attachment issues, etc. that is intensifying this for these kids.  The worse they behave, the more they need to connect with a parent (or parent figure) in their lives.  They need to LEARN safety and know they will be kept safe and loved no matter what they do.  Not an easy task -- I know from experience!  It is hard to love a child who would rather see you dead...but after years (it's not a quick fix), you will see progress.  There is hope for these kids...we just need to open our eyes and connect the dots!  Education is the key to helping every one of these kids and their families!  Something in their life caused them to stop loving...we need to TEACH them how to love and trust again!
 
June 9, 2008, 12:00 pm CDT

At least you try...

Quote From: shawnylou

My lil 8 year old boy has the best smile on earth and the most precious face. He has been talking steadily since he was born making all sorts of sounds and babble ,he has the imagination of a future author to be and can go to any world in his mind. His large motor skills are beyong those of his age, his small motor skills are behind by at least 2-3 years and he is just starting to learn to read. He has just learned to hold a pencil.

This is his DX: He is BI-POLAR, Attachment disorder, ODD, and possibly early on-set shizophrenia. Is there a possibility if border line autism? Maybe. He has a high IQ and is cunning.

He has serious asthma and is on madications for that is advair, albuteral zyrtac and a nose spray nasennex.[ he has a nebulizer when things get too bad  In psychiatric meds, he has lamictal ,clonidine  Seroquel and when he gets so violent he will kill you and anyone he comes in contact with, we do GIVE HIM ketamine *K*  as the physicians call this hard medication. He is alergic to everything as  is his brother. he is an active kid and loves the outdoors and bike and rides and runs around and screams and plays harder than most. His older brother age 13 is not violent and is calm and .

The 8 year old is in a special school with a room if he acts up that is padded for the school staff to put him into so he does not hurt himself or anyone else.

Remember he is a precious child when not inflamed with hate and anger fear.

he has beat me and kicked me so hard I had bruises on my legs for weeks and at times I am scared to pieces of him. I am unable to take him to church because of his un-predictability and he would scare the lil ones to pieces. He has hardly any friends in the neighborhood. He never has anyone show up to his birthday party. He will fight just about anyone and threaten them with their lives.

My husband and I cannot leave him with a regular sitter, we have to have professioanl sitters who know how to handle this kid and NOT hurt him and know how to restrain him accordingly.  WE had CPS called on us at a lab one time because we had to restrain him for a blood draw and the lab tecnician refised to draw blood from the child because he was afraid of the child and so I threatened his job and he came back at me. CPS came in and knew about the child and said " Oh this lil guy"  I get the bruises and the child is fine. For all blood draws now they sedate him. For teeth fillings they use anesthesia and for me they use " Oh honey we admire you" really?

I /we do not want to lose this child and we struggle daily to weekly to hold on tight to this human being who we know can turn out to be a bit different in many ways. he is very VERY violent and yet he can be a pussy cat too. We do not keep any guns in the house, we would be dead by now and knives are carefully maintained. We have 4 cats and one dog. When he gets angry we have taught him if he hurts an animal we call the police. We have called the police on hurting humans and have had to call them when he refused to take his meds when he tore the hosue apart from one end to the next. A piece of dust set him off. CPS is now looking into respite care for my husband and I so we can go out once a month.. maybe. I trust no one with him , he is hard to handle and if he got hurt I would come apart. OR for that matter if anyone else got hurt I would come apart.. hell this is hard...

I can give you a thumbs up for at least keeping the child with you. There are so many people who take for granted the fact that their child(ren) are "normal" that they tend to look at troubled kids as a mutant. It really is sad, some people think that you can just throw this chiold into a "home" and forget about him. But under all the mental anguish the child is going through I am sure that he is capable of facial recognition. He knows who is brother, mother, father, family is. What would it do to the child if all of a sudden he were dropped off with some strangers and couldn't find mommy anymore! That would only leave a bigger scar and even more confusion. Probably more rage and violence.

I commend you on your love. It takes a true love of your child to maintain and care for him even though he is troubled. You have not given up on him or deserted him. God Bless You for just being exactly what God expects you to be...PARENTS. 

 
June 9, 2008, 5:41 pm CDT

06/10 Deadly Kids

I saw this show when it first aired. I hope the parents and children got the help that they need.
 
June 10, 2008, 3:19 am CDT

06/10 Deadly Kids

Quote From: dev1912

I am a step mother, and a damn good one at that.  When we got these 2 boys out of a foster home, they were the most feral things you had ever seen.  We used strict discipline first, with a lot of love and compassion.  We have had these boys for 5 years now, and they are the most well behaved and happy kids you have ever seen.  Children WANT discipline.  They want to KNOW someone CARES about them.  I'm sorry to get anyone's panties in a twist, but back when all the "do gooders' regarding child rearing stepped in and basically took away a parents right to discipline their child...they made a BIG BIG mistake. Yet one can understand why kids behave the way they do today.  Well, that's why.  Teach them respect, responsibility, and resourcefulness.  Step up to the plate and BE the parent, be the authority...not the "buddy" or "friend".  Children need a healthy fear of authority.  Todays kids have NONE.  50 years ago, you wouldn't see kids getting away with the crap they get away with...They would be punished, and it was no one else's business but your own.  And that's the way it should be.  No one cried abuse when they knew they got a whooping for doing something they shouldn't have done.  Kids today know they can, and they do.  My daughter, who is now 23, tried that when she was about 12. I got tired of her screaming at me because she wasn't getting her way, and so I took her by the shirt, and walked her to her room and gave her a little push into the room...she was in no way hurt, abused, or any such thing...she was just plain mad...so she threatened to call Social Services on me....I picked up the phone, I found the number and dialed it, and handed it to her.  I told her if she thought she was going to be better off living somewhere else, I'd help her pack.  She grabbed the phone and hung it up and went back in to her room.  Needless to say, she never tried to pull that crap on me again. So, I too, in a way blame the parents for not being the authority they have every right to be.  I paddled my kids butts in the middle of the store when they sat in the isle and screamed because I wouldn't buy them what they wanted.  I didn't care what people thought....these are MY children, and I wanted them to be civilized when they grew up...and they are.  My daughter has held 3 jobs since she was 16.  My son is now 28 and can do just about anything he puts his mind to...and now we have the 2 little ones...who I must say, are well on their way to becoming civilized, responsible, respectable and resourceful adults.
 

I had to read this twice to make sure I didn't post it!   I agree wholeheartedly. I have nothing to say but BRAVO!

 

 

 
June 10, 2008, 8:18 am CDT

Allergies/Asthma connection

Quote From: meissner_mr

I can give you a thumbs up for at least keeping the child with you. There are so many people who take for granted the fact that their child(ren) are "normal" that they tend to look at troubled kids as a mutant. It really is sad, some people think that you can just throw this chiold into a "home" and forget about him. But under all the mental anguish the child is going through I am sure that he is capable of facial recognition. He knows who is brother, mother, father, family is. What would it do to the child if all of a sudden he were dropped off with some strangers and couldn't find mommy anymore! That would only leave a bigger scar and even more confusion. Probably more rage and violence.

I commend you on your love. It takes a true love of your child to maintain and care for him even though he is troubled. You have not given up on him or deserted him. God Bless You for just being exactly what God expects you to be...PARENTS. 

Have you looked into food or environmental allergies as a possible trigger or something that makes the other behavior worse?  I don't have time to write much now, but SO many things in your post stood out to me as possibly biomedically-related as opposed to strictly psychiatric.  At the very least, improving his health might make him feel a little better, which might help calm some of the behaviors down, and maybe help get him off some of the other meds which can exacerbate behavior symptoms with their side effects.  Some books to check out, off the top of my head:  "Is This Your Child?" by Doris Rapp, "Enzymes and..." (there are several different titles) by Karen DeFelice, gosh I can't remember others at the moment but check out things by parents of kids with autism, they tend to be ahead of the pack as far as treating behaviors biomedically.  There is LOTS of support out there in cyberspace, please don't think you are alone.  Good luck with everything...

 
June 10, 2008, 10:49 am CDT

06/10 Deadly Kids

Quote From: tiffany_2007

I don't think any step parent walks in and assumed they are going to be the new father or mother, but the children will view it this way. It sad when this happens, it would be nice if all couples were happy and stay together and all children could be raised in a normal home. Sadly that isn't the case but I do think children's feelings are forgotten most of the time.

 

I'm shocked this mother stays around, she has her own children to worry about and in my opinion she is keeping them in harms way buy letting them be around this young boy, cause you know he will come back into the home. These parents are going to wake up in 10 years and say, I wish i had put my children first. My mother says that now and its a very sad thing to watch. I learned from my parents mistakes, I'm in a happy marriage we have our first child, and we also don't believe in divorce, we have both agreed, many years ago that we will work through any problem. My husband also comes from a broken home and he hated both his step parents, his step father beat him, and his step mother would belittle him, they however have a very different relationship as of today, they get along now, but thats also cause I will not put up with disrespect of my husband. I yelled at his step mother about 6 years ago when she started to belittle him in front of me, she has never said a bad word about him, and they now get along. She even enjoys visiting with my son. But I will not put up with disrespect to me, my husband, and never my child. My son however does come first in my life, I even put my foot down with my husband when he gets a weird idea, if I think its unsafe its not happening. I wish more people would put there children at the top of there list, I think we would have better future generations. And I don't mean spoil the child but put the needs of the child first.

Tori said that Donovan began acting out when she and Stephen first started dating. For me, that would be a deal-breaker. Especially if he were already threatening my own children. Not only wouldn't I have married Stephen. I would've broken off the relationship.
 
June 10, 2008, 10:59 am CDT

06/10 Deadly Kids

Quote From: bengaltiger

I am blaming all the adults in this child's life.  Not just the step mother.   
Gad, you must have quite an ax to grind!
 
June 10, 2008, 11:05 am CDT

Fractured child

Peaple wonder how a child ends up like this.  Well, I can tell you.  All children are born with a clean slate.  Each looking to be loved, tought, and formed.  Then things happed to these children that confuse, hurt, and fustrate them.  Here is a picture of how a child end up this way:

 

FRACTURED LOVE

At birth

Mother leave Brant with 3 different families before he is 2 months old

Long week-end (2 weeks old) with Daddy at farm house

(3 other young man living there as well)

Second week-end with Grandma and Grandpa

Third week-end with Brother

Forth week he was left with Grandma and Grandpa while

Mom went to Myrtle beach

Firth week left with Daddy and Mom couldn’t be found when

Sunday night and Daddy had to take son to work with him.

Mother moves 9 times in next few months.

Brant was brought to Grandma’s house because a sitter was

Needed while Mom went to hospital for dying Aunt. Brant

Was crying when we was brought, Crying continued for 2 hours

And doctor was called. He wanted to see baby. I called Mother

And told her I was going to doctor and I would pick her up on

Way. Mother said no, dying Aunt needed her. Doctor put

Baby in hospital and couldn’t find Mother for 6 hours. She was

Not were she said she would be (same hospital as dying Aunt)

Social Service was called in.

Brant gets ear infection. In lots of pain. Doctor gives anti

Biotic. Mother does not give it because she says it is making

His vomit. Ear infection comes back. New antibiotic. Mother

Forgets to put it in refrigerator and then pitches it. Ear infection

Comes back again and this time Daddy will not let her take him

Back until ear has cleared.

(Continuation of same behavior for next 18 months)

Child is still a Baby (18 months old) and is expected to be a perfect

Mother Marries and has son stand up for her. Things go bad.

Mother takes child back and tries to form a family, but Brant

Cried and wanted Daddy. Mother tells Brant that her new

Husband is Daddy too. Brant gets confused.

Mother starts cheating on new husband and starts leaving

Brant at Grandma and Grandpa’s house. (Mother has shared

Custody and goes to her house every other week-end, but now

Weekends are being missed so she can spend time with new boy

Friend and telling husband that Brant is sick and she doesn’t

Want to tear him away from here. All time telling us that she

Is sick and doesn’t want to expose Brant, so she is leaving him

With us.

Brant spends next 3 years (86% of the time over next 2 years) at Grandma’s and Grandpa’s house with Daddy (Daddy moved back in to be closer to son). I loved him as my own - knowing that I would Have to give him up when son found a wife.

Brant is 3 years old

Son finds a wife. Marries and moves son into wife’s apt.

Family mores into new house

Brant is 5 years old

Family expects new baby. Step mother makes promise

Nothing will change. She will still love him the same

Things start to change very much. (Step mother finds

Fault with step son. He is 5, but mother makes him

Clean his own bathroom because he missed toilet. He’s

Not clean enough for Step mother. Son wants to go home to

Grandma and Grandpa’s (Son’s words). Step Mother if he

Doesn’t stop asking for Grandma he will never see her again.

 

Brant is 6 years old (April)

Brant starts 1st grade. It’s hard for Brant to remember all the

Things that he is suppose to. (Normal) But he is made to feel

Abnormal. Mom doesn’t want to be the Mom (thinks like

Making sure he does the things he should like do homework, get bed on time, go up with him to take a bath and make sure thing

Like picking up clothes and towels are done. She felt that at 5

He should do these things on his own. ‘He’s been told’ was

One thing she said to me.

Brant is 6 ½ years old

 

New baby is born in . Grandma asked to NOT come to hospital,

But to keep first son with her. Grandma concerned that grand-

Son should be a part of birth asked if grandson can come to see

New brother. He is allowed, but at the hospital grandma is

Asked to keep first son for a week so that new mother can

Acclimate with new baby. Grandma feels it is a big mistake,

But has no choice. Brant cries to go back home to be with

New baby. Finally is allowed home a week later.

Brant is never clean enough to even touch baby on his head,

While new mother kissed baby on lips. Step grandmother

Moves in with family to help care for new baby, but also

Treat Brant as if he was a big germ. Step mother with family

For 2 months. Daddy asks her to go home.

Step grand mother leaves. Mom goes to her parents home next

Day because she can’t coup. Mother bounces back and forth

For weeks, spending more time at her mother’s house then

At home.

Brant is 7 years old

Baby is now 10 months old, crawling on floor, but Brant still no

Clean enough to touch. Brant not allowed to touch baby toys,

But baby most be allow to play with Brant’s toys.

Brant is blamed for all things that go wrong at home. Brant is

Offered back to Grandma in front of him. Grandma has to tell

Mother that it would not be a good idea. (Grandma faced with

Undermining Dad or making Brant feel unwanted by Grandma

As well (Grandma feels she made a mistake and should have

Said yes)

(Hear say only) Mother becomes physical with Brant saying that

Brant became physical first. (not sure if Brant didn’t become

Physical first, but feel the adult should be the “the adult”)

Brant is sent to a lock down facility for children because mother

Says she is afraid of child. Brant spends 5 day in hospital and

Doctor’s find nothing wrong with child except deep depression.

Only problem is “family dynamic” and they need counseling

Brant allowed to come home from hospital put mother leaves

Until more counseling can be done. Mother moves out with

Baby. Mother tells Brant that she is moving out because Brant

Is such a bad child and will not move back until he is good.

Counseling started. Brant has his own counselor. Mom has her

Counselor Dad and Brant go to Family counselor (different one)

Brant has physiatrist he sees once a month. Family counselor

Felt that it was time to bring it together, so Dad and Mom meet

First. In first meeting, Mother is told she has to be an adult,

And walks out of meeting to never return.

Brant is 9 years old

Family is fractured. No divorce yet. Daddy is kept

from youngest son. Grand-parents are allow to see baby once in year and ½ . Daddy Waits to give Christmas presents to baby for 5 months. Grandma and Grandpa are still waiting.

Dad looses job because he is unable to do jobs as he was be-

Fore Mother leaves. (Some jobs start at 5 or 6 in morning and

Dad needs to get son on bus at 8) Dad still out 4 months later.

Bankruptcy and home is up for sell.

Brant no longer trusts anyone. Brant is full of fear, anger, and

Mistrust. Now he is on medications for Hyper activity, ADD, OCD, and ODD. Grandma cries at night for Brant and baby.

 

Now what do we do to repair this child.

 
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