Topic : 12/25 Parent Trap

Number of Replies: 3786
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Created on : Friday, October 26, 2007, 02:49:00 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 10/29/07) Fraud. lies. conspiracy. They may sound like the latest Washington scandal, but these are allegations of exes at war over child support. Dr. Phil's guests claim they became victims of the perfect crime when they were led to believe they fathered a child that was not biologically their own and were forced to pay. First up, Enrique says he was shocked and angered to discover he was not the father of his youngest daughter, Selina, and that she was conceived during his ex-wife, Maria's, adulterous affair. Maria says he raised Selina but then abandoned her to save money. Why does Maria say Enrique's current wife is to blame for the fractured relationship? Next, 13-year-old Selina speaks one on one with Dr. Phil. Will she decide to let the man she once called Daddy back in her life? Then, Carnell Smith, who uses the online moniker, "Man4Justice," suffered a similar fate to Enrique, and but he fought and won. He says he's tired of seeing women trap men and get away with it. A heated debate ensues between him and feminist attorney, Gloria Allred, who argues that men like Enrique should continue to act as the father ... and continue paying! Talk about the show here.


Find out what happened on the show.


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October 30, 2007, 12:55 pm PDT

Darned Statistics

Statistics:   If 30% of the men who get paternity tests get back a negative result (i.e. He's not the father) that does not mean that 30% of the general population has mistaken paternity.   The people who initiate paternity tests already have a substantial reason to have them performed and are liklier to have a higher negative rate than that of the population as a whole.

 

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October 30, 2007, 12:56 pm PDT

The Judges and Lawyers

We need to be reminded of some things: 

 

1. Many judges are liberal and/or radical.  Children are not their priority, their own agenda (liberal) is.  This is a large part of why our country is in the sad shape it is in--unjust and unrighteous [liberal] judges.  The radical, liberal agenda intends to take our country down.  Anything that represents the norm or traditional values is fair game.  If this trend continues, the America we knew as children, and even know now will be a thing of the past.  There's no place for common sense or instruction from our Judaea/Christian roots--indeed this is attacked often and foremost.  We can't have prayer in schools or before sports events, God's name on public buildings, it shouldn't be on money, your 13 year old daughter should be given get birth conrol at school without your knowledge or permission, the man-boy love organization has a right to exist and act, and on and on ad nauseum.  Obviously, these are just a tiny part of examples.

 

2.  Glorida Allred is a feminist.  Feminists advocate women's rights even when women are dead wrong.

 

3.  Many (?most?) lawyers are liberal, and certainly care little about truth, honor, and justice.  Money rules.

 

==========

Common sense dictates that it is not in the best interest of a child to make a man pay child support who is not that child's biological father and does not want to do so--unless he has adopted the child and agreed to the child support. How any judge can order otherwise, or any lawyer can fight otherwise is truly beyond me. The resentment, let alone the poor example of the mother, will affect the child very negatively.  But then common sense, like the Pillsbury Dough Boy, is a thing of the past... 

 
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October 30, 2007, 12:56 pm PDT

"Best intrest of the child" should include supporting the child weather it be financial or emotional. The child is the one who was getting hurt in more ways than just emotional, did everyone forget that children need financial support as well as emotional

Quote From: delcom

Everyone agrees that the father and daughter should continue their relationship but there are two other issues here. 

1.  Should a man have to pay child support for another's child.  The simple answer for any thinking person is ABSOLUTELY NOT!  The law needs to be changed so that victims are NOT required to pay for anothers crime (the woman's fraudulent claim of paternity).  All amounts previously paid should be repaid to the man.

2.  The other issue is that woman lawyer.  She did not answer direct questions but rather changed the topic to other issues; she ranted and raved about the "best interest of the child" (nice legal term for family courts, like they know what that is!) when the topic was "should the man continue to pay?".  She contributed nothing to the show except to show how she views the rights of inocent victims in these cases (short answer; they have none).

 

Bottom line: The man is a victim and the courts continue the crime when they require him to continue to pay.  The mother should be prosecuted for fraud (a real crime) and be required to pay him back.  When are we going to get this system fixed?

 
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October 30, 2007, 1:01 pm PDT

The lawyer was off-point throughout the show.

Quote From: fromthesquare

This certainly has been a passionate topic.  There has been a lot of anger aimed at the right people in this matter but I think that Gloria Allred is not one of them.  She was on the show to explain and defend the law.  She is a lawyer and Dr Phil is not. Who better to explain the law than a lawyer?  Maybe the laws need to be tweaked to include our latest scientific gains in DNA testing but, she is right when she says that the laws reflect the best interest of the child. 

 

The man that the child grew up with as the father, loves as the father and looks up to as the father has rights in this case too.  I think he should go back to the courts and demand a relationship with this child.  The laws protect the father too with regards to visitation and the bonds that were established. 

 

Should he pay?  That seems to be at the heart of everyone's passionate responses.  Maria did not help matters sitting on the stage enjoying all the pain and anguish that she wreaked on her ex.  She was certainly not a likable character on the show.  She was so outlandish that the best interest of the child seemed secondary.

 HI There,

I've read lots of your posts on here and find you to be one of the more balanced and fair people who take the time to post insightful comments rather than long ponderous rants.  I respect you for that.  Even in this post noted above you are attempting to be fair, but I think you are giving the lawyer too much credit.

I honestly found Gloria Allred replusive as she continued to shift the argument around other issues NOT related to this one.  For example, when the other guest who was victimize over paying child support noted that 1 out of every 3 men is falsely accused of being a father to someone's baby (a true stat by the way), Allred rebutts with "The real issue in America is deadbeat dad's."  Huh????  How is this related to paternity fraud and why isn't paternity fraud a "real" issue to her?  Is this some kind of "payback" for deadbeat dads?  How dismissive and callous on her part, but what she did was a typical lawyer's trick (I've taught debate tactics), it is called non-sequitor argumentation which is designed to redirect the jury's attention elsewhere when the other side has a solid point that can't be countered.  She couldn't counter that gentleman's point, so she attempted to redirect the attention elsewhere.  If she was only explaining the law, she wouldn't have such a vested interest in defending Maria's indefensivable position.  I wouldn't be surprised if she picked up her case after all this publicity.

This particular case had much more to do with paternity fraud than anything else as this man, Enrique, was duped into paying child support for a child that wasn't his and the mother knew it and was clearly proud of her actions as Dr. Phil appropriately pointed out, but Allred knew that she didn't have much of a legal leg to stand on there and redirected the argument to a topic most women would holler "you go girl" about (deadbeat dads), but that didn't happen here as most saw through her and her shallow attempts to "rally the troops."  This was a step back for "women's rights" if children are going to be used as pawns like Selina was by her mom who has thwarted every effort to turn this situation around.  So much for looking out for the child's best interest.  Lawyers only do that when it conveniently fits in with their defense strategy.

Gloria Allred was not up there explaining the law in some none bias manner (she had an agenda), but was rather grandstanding on so-called "women's rights"  and "deadbeat dads" which, again, is not what this case was about really.  She is a publicity hound and her presence here added nothing to the debate and was used to promote her book, not once, not twice, but three times in the 15 minutes she was on the show (a requirement for her presence, I'm sure).  I think it was pretty evident what her purpose on the show really was, and it wasn't to simply explain the law. 

Finally, a lawyer is sometimes the worst person to explain the law because they are so busy perverting and twisting it to their advantage in order to win a case at all costs, and Allred did that at every turn on this show.  To her, winning is everything; hence, the title of her own book, but she wants to masquerade as a defender of the rights of children and women (as if men don't count).  She was an embarrassment to the legal profession in this particular instance.

In any event, I continue to read and enjoy your posts and look forward to bumping into you again on here.  Sorry, if I went off on my own rant here.  This really is a touchy topic for all the posters on here.  I think you are right that this must be some kind of record.  Hopefully, Dr. Phil will have a follow-up on this as I think he really didn't handle this show very well.

Respectfully,
Steve
 
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October 30, 2007, 1:04 pm PDT

There are no paternity disputes

Quote From: jelebean1

Are you saying it is more the woman's responsibility to provide and take care of the child?

with women and it is VERY easy for women to lie about a pregnancy or to trap a guy. Nobody is saying the motherr should be more fincially respomsible, but women should be held accountable for mis-identifying the father of their child, or flat out lying about the whole thing.

 

 

 
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October 30, 2007, 1:07 pm PDT

The problem is...

Quote From: thebes2001

When the show first began I took the fathers side, just by viewing his demeanor. I thought the mother looked like a woman with secrets up her sleeve. But, as the show progressed I found myself torn between different sides. For one thing, I am surprised no one gave the mother any credit or took her side. I don't mean her side as in the lying part but on the show she was very well put together. She never called names, she never accused, she never defended her actions. She always agreed when the audience booed her and Dr. Phil called her out. I think she really was there on the show for the daughter. As an adoptee myself, I whole heartedly believe that when you raise a child it is YOUR responsibility.

 

Now, the guest speaker, I forget his name but he was the man who said he had payed child support for eleven years when he was not the father. Why did no one think to call him out on the fact that he never bothered to get a DNA test when an ex girlfriend just called him up one day. That is pretty irresponsible if you ask me and he seemed to be a man that cared more about triumphing over accusing women than getting something serious done. In the case with the parents at hand they had been married at the time and I can understand why no DNA test was done.

 

The mother was completely at fault. No question about that. However, raising a child as your own for 10 years even when you were duped should be enough to have to pay child support. You were part of a unit, a family and all expenses were shared. Should the mother have to go to court for a lie? It is possible. But, as Gloria Allred said the child comes first. It is all about the child. Feminists get off your cushion about being treated fairly and men bring down your egos about who you may or may not have knocked up.

contesting paternity or establishing it can be expensive. Many men do not have teh money to fight something like this, especailly when the woman goes out of her way to commit fraud. Many people just do not have the legal expertise to research statutes, and many men simply do not know they do have some rights when establishing paternity.

 

Any man that finds himself in a real mess where he knows he is not the father of a child, needs the help of an attorney but where does one go if they don't have 5k as a retainer?

 

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October 30, 2007, 1:08 pm PDT

Did I Miss Something?

1.  Did Dr. Phil ask Selina why she didn't want the step dad to adopt her?  Or, did Selina tell why she didn't want him to adopt her?

 

His stepping up to the plate is very admirable, but hopefully he knows that Maria is an untrustworthy woman, and stays alert.

 

2.  Did Enrique say why he didn't want Maria's current husband to adopt Selina?  I think that is very selfish of him--it's as if he doesn't want her to have a dad.

 

Anyone have any takes or answers to these?

 
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October 30, 2007, 1:10 pm PDT

Did your husband

Quote From: chlilsis

 

My husband and I are supporting another man's child because in the State of California if a child was born during a marriage then that child is considered a child of the marriage.  We did not find out this until the little girl was 10 years old when her mother decided she should (without consulting my husband) tell this little girl that the person she thought was her father really is not...........  My husband is a wonderful man and continues to love this little girl as much as he ever has..... my question is why should we have to pay $1300.00 a month to support another man's child?  DNA testing can get you off a murder charge but not out of supporting a child that is not yours.  Where is the justice in that?  People say the child should come first and I agree, the mother should find the "real father" and force him to pay support as well as her supporting the child herself.........

not dispute paternity at the time she fell pregnant? Women have affairs all the time but unless the husband files for divorce and files to dispute paternity, the child becomes legally his.
 
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October 30, 2007, 1:10 pm PDT

Ridiculous

It should be everyone's choice whether or not they pay for another person's child.  But when a parent is misled into thinking that child is their's the courts should not implement him/her to pay child support.  The parent should though keep that child's interest at heart and continue out of love and honor to continue making sure that the child is taking care of.  No one should be forced as to paying for someone else's out right dishonesty's.  These kind of parents a completely RIDICULOUS. I would only hope that if I and my husband were to separate that he would continue to raise my son as he always has.

 
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October 30, 2007, 1:14 pm PDT

Good luck!!!!!

Quote From: kbowman15

My husband and I are going to court today for the very same thing the show was about. His Ex-Wife tricked him into believing that he was the father for 7 years to a little girl. He had it thrown up in his face numerous times that he was not the father when he was married to her. He never had the guts to do a paternity test until 3 months there was a blow up and she took her away from us. That was what he afraid of if he did the test. Well, since she took her away from us, he decided to do a home DNA test and it came back as 100% he was not the father. Our court date was continued 2 times and finally we are going today...10/30/07!! We used to get her almost everyday after school and everyday during the summer, but she could not spend the night a lot because her mom said she had to help babysit her baby brother while her and her boyfriend were at work. My husband had a 1500lb mold fall from 5ft in the air at work and crushed his foot and had to have surgery, he still has to use a cane and is going to go thru another surgery. He is home everyday, but instead of us picking her up everyday from school like we did last year, her mom is sending her to LachKey. Child support has been completely cut off and she is not getting a dime. We are suing her for Paternity Fraud after this is all over with and hopefully our attorney can get it to where she will have to pay back all the child support my husband has pd for the last 7 years. This has nothing to do with money, but we feel that it's right for the real father to be involved in her life because she has a whole other family out there. My husband is not angry anymore and actually feels bad for the real father. Our main concern is if something medical happens to this little girl, her real family might be the only ones to save her. We found out the resuls of the DNA test 3 days after my husband was released from the hospital. He talked to his ex and she was feeling really bad and said she wanted to keep everything the same and did not feel that it was right for him to pay child support. Well, the only was to get that stopped was to agree to shared parenting and then she said she felt threatened we were trying to take her away from her mother. She completely cut all ties we had with the daughter except for every other weekend for 48 hrs. I look in her eyes and tell she has changed. When we had her all of last year when she was in 1st gradem she had straight A's, and now that we don't get her during the week, she is getting straight F's! We feel that is right that we get her everyday after school because I work 3rd shift and my husband can't work at all. We have plenty of time to work with her with school work and they don't. Her mom works FT and so diesn't her mom's boyfriend. Her mother does not get home until 5:30-6pm. She is completely taking advantage of the system. She has another child by her boyfriend and has been with him for at least 5/5 years and has not gotten married. She has been in a 2 year community college for at least 5.5 years....It is really frusterating to know that our child support that we pd went strictly to alcohol. She spends the night with her grandmother more then her moms....Well, I am done venting because WE HAVE TO GO TO COURT. Wish us luck and I will update the message doard tonight!!!!!
 
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