Dr. Phil.com - Messageboards - 05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

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May 20, 2008, 9:37 pm PDT

ditto!

Quote From: cndrlla

My daughter did the very same thing with her son who was 4 at the time....(in fact, I told this story the other day on these message boards), and he never pulled that stunt again!........he is 22 now, in college, has never gotten into any trouble.

I believe in creative parenting and creative discipline!

I couldn't agree more! Creative discipline, creative parenting, you bet! I have 4 children. The two older girls who are now 20 and 21 were with me at the mall when they were younger (maybe 11 or 12ish) and they were bickering and fighting. I told them probably a couple of times to knock it off but they continued. I sat right down in the middle of the mall and told them we were not going any further until they stop. People were walking by and looking at me like I was crazy and the girls were mortified! Well, of course they were saying "Mom, get up, you are embarassing us!" Needless to say, the rest of the shopping trip went well and they still laugh about that incident to this day. They did, on occasion, get a swat or two, I don't think it scarred them for life. There are plenty of ways to get a message across to your children. They are now very productive members of society (1 has been in the Air Force for 4 years and the other is employeed at an orthodontist office after completing Dental School)

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tammy_anne

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May 20, 2008, 9:48 pm PDT

very good point

Quote From: doguardian

Noah, I was concerned with the number of times you justified your behavior using a deragotory remark about animals. You said things like "you treat me like a dog" as though treating a dog with cruelty is somehow acceptable. This isn't just some adult lady's opinion. I'll start you off with comments from 3 heroic men:

I am in favor of animal rights as well as human rights. That is the way of a whole human being.

-Abraham Lincoln

The greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated.

-Gandhi

If you have men who will exclude any of Gods creatures from the shelter of compassion and pity, you will have men who will deal likewise with their fellow men.

-Saint Francis of Assisi (mystic and preacher)

Love the quotes! thanks for that =)

Tammy

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unome_djd

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May 20, 2008, 10:11 pm PDT

05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

I saw today's episode and was completely shocked. I grew up with the belt and spankings. And I never would have gotten away with treating my parents the way these kids treat their parents. I was really shocked when the one boy slapped his mother and told her to shut up. No matter what no kid should hit their parents. And he had the audacity to lie about his mother hitting him on the plane. Something needs to happen with the parents. I can't even fault the kids. The parents let the kids get away with what they are doing. The need to take a stand and really disiplining their kids. SPANK THE KIDS AND FIGHT BACK.

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pmoncrieffe

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May 20, 2008, 10:19 pm PDT

What a shame

I feel so bad for the parents and the children as well.

I feel the story about the Brat Camp is a little un-settling. Honestly I know we as parents make mistakes but honestly no one deserves that kind of pain from the child you spent 9 months carrying, and went through an exorbitant amount of pain to bring this person into this world. The pain must be unimaginable.

I feel frustrated and I am not the one in this situation. My heart bleeds for these children and for these parents.

Dr Phil I honestly don't know how you handle all these issues and it not affect you... you are amazing!!!

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kittin

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May 20, 2008, 10:26 pm PDT

Finally!

Quote From: mommypersonny

when did kids become the judges to their parents???my parents didn't hit us that often but if we acted up we did get a spanking...and I didn't always agree with them but they were the growns up and knew things about life and the world and I had to trust that they knew best,and there were those things they did that I said I'd never do to my kids(most of them I did do with my kids lol)

did anyone else see the little smiles on those kids face when dr. phil said something about the parent's being wrong..?thats what these kids want!! to get there own way!!! for many years I have seen kids tell there parents if they didn't get their way they were going to call child servies..kids see things with the eyes of a child..one of the kids said he TAP his mother 2x with his elbow but she HIT him with her's..eye's of a child..

what I don't understand why dr phil play's in to this....maybe it's time to tell these kids..your parents know/or are doing what they think is best.and do as your told..and when your grown MOVE OUT!!!!and do as you please!!! I think one of the biggest problem is people seem to think they are on this earth to judge everyone else behavor..not our own...dr phil please stop acting like this is ok..how about telling these kids"I'M not going to talk about whats wrong with your parents..let's just talk about your behavior"kids have to trust their parent and they can't do that if they hear people talking bad about them...and the most important thing these kids need to learn is to judge their own behavior not other,because thought out their lifes they are going to meet alot of poeple who are going to do thing you do like and they are not going to change them, you can only change./control your own behavior..

our world has enough judges..their judging muslim,blacks..gays,non-english speaking people..and those right-to -life'r who kill to prove there right!....AND NOW PARENTS

my boys didn't like every thing I told them to do and those things we talk about but in the end I 'm the mother and I know best...

I feel you are the voice of common sense here and I agree with you 100%!Too many people don`t understand the "eyes of a child" concept and accept anything a child says at face value.Two posters are angry at Dr. Phil for refusing to accept Noah`s manipulations about his Mother`s abuse.

Anyone who doubts your comment about people thinking they are here to judge others just needs to read this message board!

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cnd222

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May 20, 2008, 10:32 pm PDT

Noah and Ethan

Quote From: tyler1

Right on! I couldn't agree more! No one including Dr PhilI is listening to Noah. How come his feelings don't matter and he was labeled a liar in the first minute of his say? GRRRRRRRRR.

Dr. Phil isn't listening to Noah yet because Noah isn't saying anything real. He is venting his emotions through a bunch of lies and crap that get people's attention. He is getting an emotional "fix" for his hurt inner feelings by creating all this drama and emotion over things that don't matter, so he doesn't have to dig inside and touch what does.

Dr. Phil didn't "not listen"... he disengaged. It's designed to get Noah off the merry-go-round, so to speak, and hopefully get moving in some direction to what is REALLY at the heart of the anger and hurt. Good call, Dr. Phil.

I like Noah. Very bright, sweet, sensitive, loving kid. If he responds to this, he'll be able to make a change.

Ethan cracks me up, I love it. Not a bad kid at all. Needs to be evaluated for ADHD, would benefit from medication and education to help him focus, LOTS of kinesthetic stuff... for heaven's sake, he is NOT going to do well in some half hour, sit-still and talk about your feelings crap! Teamwork exercises, hands-on, let him chew gum when he has to concentrate... he's a sweet, bright kid, too, and thinks he's stupid because of the focus problems. Mom can help with a LOT of structure for him, and none of the touchy-feely or loud and stern discipline. "No" and redirect. Quick consequence and redirect. He's not going to hold onto a grudge unless you do. The right intervention could do wonders for him.

Haley needs to feel listened to. Regular "dates" with her mom, where they do fun girl stuff without the "parenting" type comments, or even talking together about world issues and things while they get some ice cream, would go a long way to help this relationship.

They aren't brats, and I don't think there are serious psychiatric issues here... all workable, with good help. Good kids, good parents, just hit some bumps on the road. I look forward to the rest of the episodes!

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kenuffff

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May 20, 2008, 10:43 pm PDT

do people use logic anymore?

Quote From: mpaeds

I was disappointed in today's show. It is very clear that Noah is in alot of pain, and feels that nobody is listening to him. He ABSOLUTELY should not have slapped his mother, but it was clear that he was desperate to make her understand. I feel that Dr. Phil blew him off, and that seets a bad precident for any child who sees this show and is now afraid to tell that they are being hit. As far as being cleared by a CPS investigation, first, i have seen kids who have been investigated 3 or 4 times prior to the abuse being discovered. Second, this may not meet the technical definition of abuse, but this child has a mother who is emotionally not there for him, and when she does respond she gets physical with him. It probably does feel like abuse to him.

As far as Ethan is concerned, LET THE KID LISTEN RATHER THAN ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT HE LOOKS AT YOU. I couldn't believe those 2 doing that exercise.

I see "out of control" kids every day in my office. I have a "time out corner" and use it frequently. In our office, nobody hits anybody without consequences - hands are for healing not hitting. Oddly enough, the out of control kids like me, and I will not tolerated disrespect, and I call them on their bad behaviour. However, I also listen to them, encourage them, let them know that I have faith and confidence in them, and that I truely like them as people. It seems to go a long way.

My husband and I provide respite for an "out of control" kid. He is never out of control with us. He follows our rules and works hard to please us.He says he likes us because we show him we care about him, we dont call him names, and we do nothing to hurt him.

Kids need to be heard and respected, while shown what behaiour is acceptable.

noah isn't an abused child. first off an abused child would be afraid of their abuser not argue and slap them in the face. he would dred being near her and try to avoid all contact that may start abuse not go around arguing with her every decision and think he is entitled to the same rights as an adult. noah has all the traits of a psychopath and he is only 11. i don't think there is anything that can be done, you can't change a personality disorder. he is lying about the abuse, why do you think the airline attendents restrained him because he was being beaten? dr phil even said it sounded rehearsed. if you notice he never once cries about his sister, or feels any empathy for his mother he only does crocodile tears to try to change the situation ie being on the show to his advantage and make his mother look horrible and crying about how HE has it bad.

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Promiscuous sexual behavior

those are traits of an anti-social psychopath for ADULTS. how many of those does noah already have , well lets see he is narcassitic and has an idea that he is equal to adults and should receive special treatment, he is def. manipulative, he shows no empathy for anyone but himself, and he doesn't accept responsbility for his own actions ie he always shifts the blame to someone else its never his fault his mom starts all arguements. of course if you're naive and believe he is actually being abused then you won't understand whats really going on there. and btw a psychopath is not necesscarily a killer, or even a crimminal 3% of the population are psychopaths they typically go into law,medicine, law enforcement studies have shown, so noah could grow up to be a lawyer or a doctor, just still be a really crappy human being. he has all the traits of a pyschopath but he has violent tendencies and early involvement with law enforcement we know that, so its up in the air to me how he might progress, i'd like dr phil make a comment on this aspect of the case instead of pretending every person can be salvaged obviously thats not true based off the fact we have people in prison for life. noah could just be a psychopath there is no treatment for it, just counseling to contain any violent urges he may have towards the rest of us. and nothing is done to create a pyschopath sometimes people are just that way and have normal childhoods, i'd say the biggest thing that sent off redflags is when his sister died and he never once cried over it, death for a child should bring about sadness just nothing. when i see noah talk about someone besides himself and feel remorse and empathy im saying he is a psychopath and is headed down a very dangerous path. god only knows whats wrong with ethan , he could be the same way im not sure if he is being glib or he is really not bright. all the stuff you tell children makes me shudder because it totally leaves them out of reality. hands are for healing not hitting. so if an adult hits you, you tell them hands are for healing! while they continue to hit you. ethan and noah are NOT normal so normal logic, empathy, telling truth does not apply to them. why do you think ethan has problems at school, do you think its the teachers fault as well that he can't be controlled? im just at odds with the people that think these 2 are "good kids" , ethan would've been tested for autism at school thats an educators job to spot those signs i doubt by age of 10 one of his teachers hasn't noticed something. on a side note: my first funny reaction to noah was if he hates it where he lives, id make sure he got some real abuse when he got home and sent into a boys home and see how he likes it there. he must be eating a lot while his mom is beating him all day. all that is a joke so don't get all uppity just my first funny little comment after seeing him. both him and ethan look quite well fed.

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feistyd

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May 20, 2008, 11:03 pm PDT

I Get It!

Quote From: kenuffff

noah isn't an abused child. first off an abused child would be afraid of their abuser not argue and slap them in the face. he would dred being near her and try to avoid all contact that may start abuse not go around arguing with her every decision and think he is entitled to the same rights as an adult. noah has all the traits of a psychopath and he is only 11. i don't think there is anything that can be done, you can't change a personality disorder. he is lying about the abuse, why do you think the airline attendents restrained him because he was being beaten? dr phil even said it sounded rehearsed. if you notice he never once cries about his sister, or feels any empathy for his mother he only does crocodile tears to try to change the situation ie being on the show to his advantage and make his mother look horrible and crying about how HE has it bad.

Glibness/superficial charm
Grandiose sense of self-worth
Pathological lying
Cunning/manipulative
Lack of remorse or guilt
Shallow affect
Callous/lack of empathy
Failure to accept responsibility for own actions
Promiscuous sexual behavior

those are traits of an anti-social psychopath for ADULTS. how many of those does noah already have , well lets see he is narcassitic and has an idea that he is equal to adults and should receive special treatment, he is def. manipulative, he shows no empathy for anyone but himself, and he doesn't accept responsbility for his own actions ie he always shifts the blame to someone else its never his fault his mom starts all arguements. of course if you're naive and believe he is actually being abused then you won't understand whats really going on there. and btw a psychopath is not necesscarily a killer, or even a crimminal 3% of the population are psychopaths they typically go into law,medicine, law enforcement studies have shown, so noah could grow up to be a lawyer or a doctor, just still be a really crappy human being. he has all the traits of a pyschopath but he has violent tendencies and early involvement with law enforcement we know that, so its up in the air to me how he might progress, i'd like dr phil make a comment on this aspect of the case instead of pretending every person can be salvaged obviously thats not true based off the fact we have people in prison for life. noah could just be a psychopath there is no treatment for it, just counseling to contain any violent urges he may have towards the rest of us. and nothing is done to create a pyschopath sometimes people are just that way and have normal childhoods, i'd say the biggest thing that sent off redflags is when his sister died and he never once cried over it, death for a child should bring about sadness just nothing. when i see noah talk about someone besides himself and feel remorse and empathy im saying he is a psychopath and is headed down a very dangerous path. god only knows whats wrong with ethan , he could be the same way im not sure if he is being glib or he is really not bright. all the stuff you tell children makes me shudder because it totally leaves them out of reality. hands are for healing not hitting. so if an adult hits you, you tell them hands are for healing! while they continue to hit you. ethan and noah are NOT normal so normal logic, empathy, telling truth does not apply to them. why do you think ethan has problems at school, do you think its the teachers fault as well that he can't be controlled? im just at odds with the people that think these 2 are "good kids" , ethan would've been tested for autism at school thats an educators job to spot those signs i doubt by age of 10 one of his teachers hasn't noticed something. on a side note: my first funny reaction to noah was if he hates it where he lives, id make sure he got some real abuse when he got home and sent into a boys home and see how he likes it there. he must be eating a lot while his mom is beating him all day. all that is a joke so don't get all uppity just my first funny little comment after seeing him. both him and ethan look quite well fed.

You are funny! LOL.... ( you are not being serious are you?)

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anne_ian

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May 20, 2008, 11:04 pm PDT

look at the siduation

As for the mother that is on there with her son that had her daughtor die a few years back, I lost my brother when i was young. I figuared out later in life that alot of my troubled behaviors came from not dealing with his death. Has anyone sat down with that little boy to make sure that he knows what happend to his sister was not his fault in anyway. The mother needs to also tell him that she doesnt wish that he would have died instead because I can understand where he could get that idea from. From a personal point of view once they deal with the death of her that a lot of there problems will start to get better. Dr. Phil thank you for no pretining that you know what she went threw.

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momma_da

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May 20, 2008, 11:39 pm PDT

This show saddened me

Quote From: mpaeds

I was disappointed in today's show. It is very clear that Noah is in alot of pain, and feels that nobody is listening to him. He ABSOLUTELY should not have slapped his mother, but it was clear that he was desperate to make her understand. I feel that Dr. Phil blew him off, and that seets a bad precident for any child who sees this show and is now afraid to tell that they are being hit. As far as being cleared by a CPS investigation, first, i have seen kids who have been investigated 3 or 4 times prior to the abuse being discovered. Second, this may not meet the technical definition of abuse, but this child has a mother who is emotionally not there for him, and when she does respond she gets physical with him. It probably does feel like abuse to him.

As far as Ethan is concerned, LET THE KID LISTEN RATHER THAN ARGUING ABOUT WHETHER OR NOT HE LOOKS AT YOU. I couldn't believe those 2 doing that exercise.

I see "out of control" kids every day in my office. I have a "time out corner" and use it frequently. In our office, nobody hits anybody without consequences - hands are for healing not hitting. Oddly enough, the out of control kids like me, and I will not tolerated disrespect, and I call them on their bad behaviour. However, I also listen to them, encourage them, let them know that I have faith and confidence in them, and that I truely like them as people. It seems to go a long way.

My husband and I provide respite for an "out of control" kid. He is never out of control with us. He follows our rules and works hard to please us.He says he likes us because we show him we care about him, we dont call him names, and we do nothing to hurt him.

Kids need to be heard and respected, while shown what behaiour is acceptable.

I believe that "Mother" IS abusive, mentally, emotionally AND physically.
Any halfway decent student of body language can see the hard, cold, bitterness and anger in her eye, mannerisms, twitches, etc.!

Children do live what they learn, and his pain was so clearly in evidence, but I saw little help being offered HIM, and little understanding! WHY?
When a child says they need and want to leave their parent's home, there is good reason for close examination of that home and the parenting within it.

Perhaps, one can hope, Dr. Phil may have a better grasp of things than has been evidenced in todays episode, and may try to bring the woman to a point where she can have a clearer vision of her abusive nature, but that sort of person isn't easily or quickly helped ... and the son shouldn't be left in a potentially dangerous and painful situation until she can become a fit parent, as that may not be soon enough to avoid a lasting, detrimental, and deeply rooted effect upon the boys OWN mental state.

The Mother admits to thinking her daughter was so perfect and to viewing the boy as a problem child. I'd guess he wasn't BORN that way, but became so through his pain in trying to reach out to a mother who doesn't love him enough to see his pain, or care that HE is suffering for her loss, her anger, her bitterness, and her abusive past and present.
I doubt the daughter who died was at all perfect, but she was probably favored and treated as though she were perfect, in part, perhaps, because of her illness.

This Mother seems only to have the capacity to feel and to care about HER pain.
That little boy is incredibly smart, and knows very well his Mother is resenting him.
He is begging his Mother for love, for kindness, for respect, longing to be seen, noticed, wanted, and cherished, for HIMSELF...
not to be compared to some impossible and false vision of perfection that she has built up in her head about her daughter! Who could live up to someone's delusional vision of perfection, even without such resentment being shown toward him?

If a child is NOT feeling LOVED, there is every reason to suspect they are not BEING loved.

Maybe a close relative can now see the need for providing him a safer, more loving home while the Mother gets some greatly needed help for her mental condition? If the Mother has any loving feelings at all she would welcome the assistance of other family members, while she seeks help, and makes sure the son is also helped.

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Topic : 05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

ditto!

very good point

05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

What a shame

Finally!

Noah and Ethan

do people use logic anymore?

I Get It!

look at the siduation

This show saddened me