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Topic : 05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

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Created on : Friday, May 16, 2008, 02:20:59 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1
Have you got a whiny, crying, tantrum-throwing, feet-stomping, door-slamming, spoiled or entitled child? When you ask your child to clean up his or her room does World War III break out? Have you ever thought, Who is running this house, me or my 9-year-old? Four families who say their kids are out of control move out of their madhouse and into The Dr. Phil House. This is no summer camp … it’s Brat Camp! Skylin and Robert are newlyweds with a blended family of five kids. Robert’s two boys, Andrew, 12, and Micah, 8, constantly torment their new sister, Kaitlyn, 8, which causes yelling, crying, screaming and chaos. Helen and Tony recently divorced, but one thing they agree on is that their 9-year-old son, Ethan, lies, steals, cheats and bullies other kids. Lisa says her teen daughter, Haley, is spoiled and unappreciative. Wendy is a single mom who lost her daughter two years ago to brain cancer, and now her 10-year-old son, Noah’s, behavior has spiraled out of control. Are you in a constant battle with your child? It’s time to step up, take back control and create a happy, healthy and peaceful family. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.



Discuss your views on discipline here.


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May 21, 2008, 12:20 pm PDT

Mom and Noah

Quote From: solhealr

No one has asked the question, "Did Noah ever get grief counseling when his sister died?" I would suspect from his actions and reactions that the answer would be a resounding NO! Mom seems more concerned about the deceased daughter than about her son. And if Noah and his deceased sister, Olivia, have the same father, perhaps Noah blames Olivia's death and his mother's reaction to that death for driving his father away. He definitely needs therapy to help him deal with what has gone on in his life. And unless his mother is willing to step up to the plate and actually do the healing work that needs to take place, and start making her son a very important part of her life, I don't think things will get better for them. I never saw her reach out and just hug the boy without having to have a reason. In fact I never saw her hug him, period. Children need to know they matter and that they are of value to the adults in their lives. Solhealr

I agree Noah and mom need so much help.  Noah needs a big hug and needs to feel he is safe and loved, my his mom.  Mom has a lot of healing to do and she needs to stop being angry at Noah for her life.  I think with Dr Phil's help they can find comfort , and trust in each other. 

I have never responded to a show before but this just stayed with me.  Noah's acting out is a definite cry for help and mom's reaction is not a healthy one. 

I do not excuse Noah's behavior and I do think he needs help channeling his feelings. I think he annoys her to try ti get her attention.  She is too annoyed, angry, and sad  to see what Noah needs.  Her response to him I felt was childish. ....Kayamom

 
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May 21, 2008, 12:32 pm PDT

Take Control

I would NEVER put up with the mouths or the physical contact given by these children to their parents.  There is NO WAY my kid would slap my face and I would just sit there.  All's I know is, I was spanked as a child and had I spoken to my mother the way some of these kids do, I would have been swallowing my front teeth!  I was FAR from abused but I knew there were consequences to my actions if I chose to misbehave.  I think I had the potential to be a VERY bratty child had my parents not taken control.  I was spanked regularly and I think them being strict and consistent in their discpline helped make me the responsible, respectful adult I am today.  Parents say they are afraid of CPS but I won't be when I have children!  My mom adopted twins that were taken from their mother and you wouldn't BELIEVE the things she had to do for them to be removed.  I tried to threaten my mom with calling CPS after she spanked me one day and she picked up the phone, dialed the number and handed it to me.  Talk about being shocked!  My parents knew they weren't abusing me so they didn't feel threatened.  It just kills me how kids RUN THINGS nowadays.  What is our world going to be like in 30 years!?!?
 
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May 21, 2008, 12:34 pm PDT

05/20 The Dr. Phil House: Brat Camp

Quote From: clarajean

 Had my child slaped me I would have slaped him out of that chair. RIGHT OR WRONG  he knew better. You do not slap your mother.

His hand would've come nowhere near my face. The moment I saw that hand moving, I would've jumped up, telling him he wouldn't want to know what would happen if he ever tried that again.

 
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May 21, 2008, 12:41 pm PDT

Noah

  As someone who is now a happily married  parent of happy children, but was abused as a child, I can tell you that kids DO NOT act the way Noah does unless they are abused.  I was exactly like Noah at that age.I was disrespectful.  I saw a parent treat people, including me, with hatred and disdain, so I did the same to others.  Everyone talked about how "bright" and "manipulative" I was.  The truth was that I was only a mirror for what I had been exposed to, I was in terrible pain, and had no idea how to get help.   Kids mimic what they are exposed to, that's why my children reflect joy and love back to me all the time. 

  I went on to get a Ph.D., have a fulfilling career, form a wonderful marriage and have beautiful well adjusted children.  Now that I'm a grown, beautiful, accomplished woman and not a vulnerable little girl that people can call and did call a brat, I have some power over my own destiny and can announce to
everyone that parents BRING THIS ON THEMSELVES wiwth their selfish, irresponsible and cruel behavior.  Treat a child with love, show them a functional, safe, and happy home, they will respond with love.  Act crazy, lack boundaries, scream, swear, model a bad marriage or addiction, and kids will end up with low self-esteem, modeling terrible behavior.  I only survived because my one functional parent got me appropriate counseling in time.
 

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May 21, 2008, 12:46 pm PDT

Wendy and Noah

I was skimming the responses here, and I was struck by how many people are so quick to either place all the blame on Wendy, or place all the blame on Noah. That's not what I saw at all.

 

I saw a tired, depressed, emotionally drained woman who is clearly in the "anger" stage of grieving, who had lost a child, and whose other child hasn't been making things any easier.

And I saw an angry, lonely kid who's been lashing out in order to be heard.

 

Both are entitled to their feelings. There's plenty of justification for them.

 

I will say that I felt a little more sympathy for Noah than I did for Wendy during their sit-down meeting, because, while I don't necessarily believe that Noah's telling the truth about Wendy "abusing" him (a lot of what he said sounded very contrived for a 10-year-old), I do think that a lot of the FEELINGS that he showed were real. And she was not listening.

 

This, I think, is the crux of the matter - he's angry because nobody listens to him. He's hurting, he's lonely, and he's angry because apparently, nobody cares about his feelings. Everything is about his mother, and *her* feelings.

 

I'm a little puzzled, given this, that Dr. Phil would shut him out like that. On the one hand, I can understand it a little (he's teaching Noah that the way to get heard isn't by telling lies), but it seems to me that all this is going to accomplish, is that Noah is going to get angry at Dr. Phil and start lashing out at *him*, and any chance Dr. Phil might have had to help him directly (instead of indirectly, through Wendy) is now gone.

 
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May 21, 2008, 12:56 pm PDT

ok?

Quote From: getrealtime

Now thats funny  lol...................you two online Docs telling eachother why their diagnoses is wrong !!!

 lol..................................................................leave the kid to the real Doctors!!!!

i just said all psychopaths aren't serial killers, thats not a diagnosis..just a fact.
 
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May 21, 2008, 1:09 pm PDT

The Real Deal

Well, most are so quick to open their mouths and voice their unsubstantiated opinions. That is not a good thing. So, here you have it from the horse's mouth.
 
In the first excercise in which the parents were asked to LISTEN to their children, you will recall that on more than one occasion Dr Phil commented "Let's see how the parents really, truly listen to their children." I found this easy. I have always listened to my son Noah. Active listening involves not only keeping your mouth quiet, but also assuming a posture that says "I am interested, I am hearing you." That is what I was doing. If my eyes looked intense, perhaps it was because I was intensely listening. That is a good thing in my book.
 
Another poster on this board mentioned that it looked like I had become accustomed to the abuse. Fair statement. Since being in the Dr Phil house, I have learned to not be a doormat anymore. I am now the mother again, and I have found a way to quietly, yet assertively, demand respect. Again, I was wrong, but I thought that I needed to offer my son an outlet for his anger, and me being the closest person to him, I previously believed that I was his safety net, that I was the person to whom he could get all of his "ick" out with and still be loved.
 
I was wrong. I thought that by allowing my son Noah to carry on with his diatribes that I was actually doing something healthy for him. I thought allowing him to 'get it all off his chest' was a good thing. I have learned, in the last few months. that there is a right way to do that. He now has much clearer boundaries on acceptable ways to express yourself, should you wish to continue to be heard. Within those parameters, I am all ears. Cross the line, and you will not have my attention until your behavioral choices have changed.
 
One poster wrote (regarding my being slapped across my face by Noah) "she sure looked rather composed after it happened." Thank you for that observation. Had I been a hothead, it surely would have looked differently. Others have wrote "I sure would not have just sat there and taken that!" Interesting dichotomy, and it sure illustrates that we are all very good at Monday morning quarterbacking.  Well, at the time, it was a matter of prioritizing. Being in a place of hope, of help....what good would it have done to react?
 
I was beaten, and thus I was willing to turn the situation over to those who deal with situations such as this. I am glad I did not give a complete reactionary response. It may have defeated our purpose in being there at that moment.
 
Interesting quote from Noah on film yesterday. He mentions that he hit me "lightly." He also mentions on the plane that I jabbed him "hard." You saw the slap. If you believe that his words are the truth, and you can truly subscribe to the idea that his slap across my face was indeed light, then and only then can you with a clear conscience believe that my jab to him was 'hard." Usually people that lie about one thing can be assumed to be lying about another.
 
Now, Noah asks me about several abusive moments, and I respond with "I don't recall that." What I really thought was "Quit your damn lying." However, I would squelch another person, my son's, spirit by responding that way. It is far more diplomatic to say "that is not my recollection." There are two ways to tell someone they are wrong. Being a loving mother, I chose the one that would save my son a bit of face.
 
Let it also be put out there that perhaps I am my own worst critic. I think everyone has this continued image of my not being involved in Noah's life. In the last two years, I have taken Noah to family camp, to golf lessons, football games (he plays and it requires a time committment), driven him 900 miles to see the ocean, taken him for a week's vacation in Northern Michigan, taken him to visit friends in another state, taken him to a conference on dealing with grief, and so on. Just today, I surprised him by picking him up early from school for a special lunch date. When I speak of not being there for Noah, perhaps it is because I have set the bar high, and for the first seven years of his life, I succeeded very, very well. Perhaps I am mad at myself for not being happy go lucky, or having a spark in my step. I am sure time and my actively working at changing that will allow us to prevail.
 
In closing, those that have offered supportive comments, I want you to know how I appreciate that. This is a very precarious road that we traverse. Your kindness is appreciated.

 

Wendy

 
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May 21, 2008, 1:33 pm PDT

Walk a mile in their shoes

Quote From: coolscan

"my first thought and I'm not kidding, " They wouldn't find the body"

hmmm.....have you considered that since the mother already lost one of her children to cancer that she would not want to kill her remaining child?? 

 

 

Is Mom parenting out of guilt ?

Again, can't imagine many parents would not harbor some kind of guilt after losing one of their children to the above mentioned disease.

 

I think you all need to reserve judgement until and unless you have walked a mile in one of their shoes....

I think you all need to reserve judgement until and unless you have walked a mile in one of their shoes....

 

I have walked a mile in those shoes and I would have torn his butt up!

 
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May 21, 2008, 1:33 pm PDT

Spanking as Discipline

Quote From: lmbookerossie

If my son were to ever raise his hand to hit me, I would have knocked him on the ground and he would have to have had help to get up.  I understand that he 'wanted to show her how it felt' but, I'm sorry.  How I was raised, you wouldn't dare do that--you wouldn't even dare dream about doing that!  How disrespectful!  But you know what, I don't blame him in a way, because had the mom done what she was supposed to have done from the time he was old enough to understand, he wouldn't have had the guts to do something like that.  I know Dr. Phil doesn't believe in spanking, but I do.  I don't believe in abusing, but I do believe in discipline.  And what that child needs is a good old-fashioned butt whipping!
Spanking is not discipline, it is punishment. Discipline is a very special kind of love. It takes a loving parent to take the time to instill discipline. It is so much easier to spank a child than to take the time to discipline, isn't it? A good old fashioned butt whipping? You sound like a very angry parent to me. I feel sorry for your son. a good old fashioned butt whipping is abuse. It seems that parents today just don't want to be bothered with being responsible. Parents today also have  much difficulty with delayed gratification & model that for their children. So, when kids display the same behavior as the parents, they get spanked. Go figure!!!!!!!!!!
 
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May 21, 2008, 1:37 pm PDT

HELP IS NEEDED

Quote From: coolscan

Well, most are so quick to open their mouths and voice their unsubstantiated opinions. That is not a good thing. So, here you have it from the horse's mouth.
 
In the first excercise in which the parents were asked to LISTEN to their children, you will recall that on more than one occasion Dr Phil commented "Let's see how the parents really, truly listen to their children." I found this easy. I have always listened to my son Noah. Active listening involves not only keeping your mouth quiet, but also assuming a posture that says "I am interested, I am hearing you." That is what I was doing. If my eyes looked intense, perhaps it was because I was intensely listening. That is a good thing in my book.
 
Another poster on this board mentioned that it looked like I had become accustomed to the abuse. Fair statement. Since being in the Dr Phil house, I have learned to not be a doormat anymore. I am now the mother again, and I have found a way to quietly, yet assertively, demand respect. Again, I was wrong, but I thought that I needed to offer my son an outlet for his anger, and me being the closest person to him, I previously believed that I was his safety net, that I was the person to whom he could get all of his "ick" out with and still be loved.
 
I was wrong. I thought that by allowing my son Noah to carry on with his diatribes that I was actually doing something healthy for him. I thought allowing him to 'get it all off his chest' was a good thing. I have learned, in the last few months. that there is a right way to do that. He now has much clearer boundaries on acceptable ways to express yourself, should you wish to continue to be heard. Within those parameters, I am all ears. Cross the line, and you will not have my attention until your behavioral choices have changed.
 
One poster wrote (regarding my being slapped across my face by Noah) "she sure looked rather composed after it happened." Thank you for that observation. Had I been a hothead, it surely would have looked differently. Others have wrote "I sure would not have just sat there and taken that!" Interesting dichotomy, and it sure illustrates that we are all very good at Monday morning quarterbacking.  Well, at the time, it was a matter of prioritizing. Being in a place of hope, of help....what good would it have done to react?
 
I was beaten, and thus I was willing to turn the situation over to those who deal with situations such as this. I am glad I did not give a complete reactionary response. It may have defeated our purpose in being there at that moment.
 
Interesting quote from Noah on film yesterday. He mentions that he hit me "lightly." He also mentions on the plane that I jabbed him "hard." You saw the slap. If you believe that his words are the truth, and you can truly subscribe to the idea that his slap across my face was indeed light, then and only then can you with a clear conscience believe that my jab to him was 'hard." Usually people that lie about one thing can be assumed to be lying about another.
 
Now, Noah asks me about several abusive moments, and I respond with "I don't recall that." What I really thought was "Quit your damn lying." However, I would squelch another person, my son's, spirit by responding that way. It is far more diplomatic to say "that is not my recollection." There are two ways to tell someone they are wrong. Being a loving mother, I chose the one that would save my son a bit of face.
 
Let it also be put out there that perhaps I am my own worst critic. I think everyone has this continued image of my not being involved in Noah's life. In the last two years, I have taken Noah to family camp, to golf lessons, football games (he plays and it requires a time committment), driven him 900 miles to see the ocean, taken him for a week's vacation in Northern Michigan, taken him to visit friends in another state, taken him to a conference on dealing with grief, and so on. Just today, I surprised him by picking him up early from school for a special lunch date. When I speak of not being there for Noah, perhaps it is because I have set the bar high, and for the first seven years of his life, I succeeded very, very well. Perhaps I am mad at myself for not being happy go lucky, or having a spark in my step. I am sure time and my actively working at changing that will allow us to prevail.
 
In closing, those that have offered supportive comments, I want you to know how I appreciate that. This is a very precarious road that we traverse. Your kindness is appreciated.

 

Wendy

Some very serious counseling is needed before your child hurts someone else.  I would truly hate to see on the nightly news a report that this child has killed another child  because he was unable to control his anger issues.  He is not only abusive toward you but to others as is obvious during the show.  If looks could kill Dr. Phil would have dropped dead when he told your son "You are not telling the truth so we are finished here" and yet this child continues to defend his violent actions.  PLEASE get help outside the Dr. Phil Show
 
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