Topic : 06/03 Virtual Chaos

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Created on : Thursday, October 16, 2008, 10:37:46 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
(Original Air Date: 10/20/08) Sixty-five percent of American households report playing computer and video games, and surprisingly, the average player is 35 years old. Computer games are supposed to be fun, but when a hobby turns into an obsession, virtual fantasy worlds can ruin lives and wreck marriages. Juli says her 34-year-old husband, Fred, plays computer games all day and ignores his entire family. Fred admits to spending up 10 hours a day in a cyber world, but will he call it an addiction? Fred’s stepson, Brandon, thinks Fred is lazy and that his mom can do better. Then, Brad, 40, was so addicted to games that he spent up to 80 hours a week locked in the basement with his computer. Not only did he accumulate close to $24,000 of debt, his addiction nearly cost him his marriage and his life! Next, Liz found her 21-year-old son, Shawn, dead at his computer from a self-inflicted gun shot. She says that a role-playing game in the virtual world transformed her son from a vibrant young adult into a depressed introvert, which ultimately led to his suicide. Liz founded Online Gamers Anonymous to educate others about the potential dangers of obsessive gaming. Then, when Wendy married a video game designer, she literally took matters into her own hands and started playing herself.  Are you or is someone you love at risk for video game addiction? Log on to DrPhil.com for a checklist of signs!

Find out what happened on the show.

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October 21, 2008, 8:42 am PDT

Marrage or Video games????

Well I would like to say the my marriage went though a time where I felt like my husband played the on-line video games to much...  After many long drawn out fights when we got to the root of the problem it was we were not spending any time together.  I was working and taking care of the kids and house, while he did work I didn't understand that when I had a free minute why he couldn't spend it with me....  LOL After he told me that he felt like I never had time for him and thats why he would play for hrs and let me do my thing I realized it wasn't all him.  So instead of vegging out on the couch after the kids were to bed I JOINED him and we have had a better marriage because of it...  We set down in the same room and talk yes sometimes about the game but most of the time we talk about our day and things we need to do and things we want to do...  My husband serves in the Air Force so I do understand sometimes he needs his space to let the day go BUT so do I....  All I want to say is I never played a single video game before this and I do enjoy the game the meeting of new people from around the world and the connection me and my husband got back after years of drifting apart after our children and many moves from state to state.  We all have to compromise sometimes and try new things..
 
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October 21, 2008, 8:53 am PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: tawnee69

The last line is the important one.

 

Us widows are not talking about 1 hour playing...that's a hobby.

We are talking about doing NOTHING else but gaming.  Ignoring your spouse, job, responsibilities and children.

Yes, some gamers out there ignore their kids. And just because other things are addictive doesn't make gaming any less so, or less damaging.

I have been abused by gaming.  Marriges have broken up, children feel neglected and worth less than a game.

Is this right? Is this ok? Hell no!

 

I understand needing to relieve stress.  I have a very stressful job.  However I deal with my house, my yard and spend quality time with my kids and when they are in bed then I sit and read.

 

Gaming to the point that you neglect everything else is NEVER ok!

Everyone has thier own way of decompressing.  Why won't you play WOW with your hubby?  I do and I really enjoy it.  We have been playing it since 2004 when it was originally released and we have taken time off here and there from it but always went back. Not because of "addiction" but because we have met so many great people there.  Oh and we have no kids and this is our entertainment.  We don't go out to movies or out to drink in the bars. 

 

We also know families that play the game together and only play when everyone in the family plays.  Sure there are familys with problems related to video games, but it isn't the game, it is the persons addictive nature that causes the problem.

 
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October 21, 2008, 9:10 am PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: topsail

Dear Dr. Phil,

 

Thank you for the way you help people through your show.  I am especially grateful that you are doing a show about online gaming addictions.  I have a 38 yr. old son who has been addicted for over four years now.  His life is completely shattered because of his addiction.  His marriage of nine years disolved, he hasn't worked for four years, and he has no life behond his computer game, World of Warcraft.  He is in complete denial that he has any problems other than depression, which I believe was brought on by his excessive gaming habit.  My son has a masters degree and was a successful manager of a huge corporation before he got hooked to online gaming.  He is not the person he used to be!  I am so grateful for the help, advise and support I have received  form the group, Olganon.  People, including the medical community, don't understand how destructive this addiction is to the people caught up in it and how it affects their family.  I trust your program will give the much needed knowlege and attention about this devastating affliction.

God bless you Dr. Phil!

It isn't just you but I find it funny when people say  "my son has been addicted to the game for over four years now."  Unless he played beta he couldn't have.  It isn't quite 4 yrs yet.  Then end of Novemeber is 4 yrs.  Sorry for splitting hairs on that. 

Devastating affliction?  No, but for some it might be.  Everyone who plays WOW isn't addicted.

 
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October 21, 2008, 9:19 am PDT

My son is addicted to Second Life

Quote From: lizwool

Hello,  I am on this show.  I appreciate that excessive gaming and what it can do to people and their real lives is FINALLY being talked about.  I look forward to seeing the show.  If you need support with excessive gaming, whether you are the gamer or the family member, loved one or concerned other, you are welcome to join our community  -   On-Line Gamers Anonymous at www.olganon.org

 

Sincerely,

Liz W.

I was so grateful that Dr. Phil had a show like this. I have not seen my son in 7 years. He moved out at age 20, telling us he was going to go to game design school. That never happened. He discovered gambling, and then, when the money ran out (he never worked a day in his life), he found Second Life (which they used to allow virtual gambling). They have since stopped it inside Second Life but my son told me "we found a way around this.".

My son has several avatars. My son literally lives inside Second Life. He used to do Worlds of Warcraft, and Everquest. He obviously has an addictive behavior personality. He's also been diagnosed wih Aspergers. He is on SSI. He has an apartment, a computer, dsl line, and does nothing but play this game night and day.

We can't do anything, but if any parents out there own playstations, or watch as their kids are on the computer, don't let them near a role playing game.

I am sorry that the 21 died. This is horrible.

I actually never knew that this game can cause such depression that one can die from it.

My son has depression, is on all kinds of medication. He is lost to us.

If I had known about the potential addictions of video-gaming, I never would have bought him that nintendo set when he was younger. NEVER!!!

Then came the playstations, the game-boys, the X-boxes, and most dangerous of all...VIRTUAL REALITY GAMING.

What a shame. and what a loss!!!!

Thanks for listening.
 
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October 21, 2008, 9:29 am PDT

World of Warcraft Addict

      I have been playing WOW since 2005 and had to pull myself away from the game. I allowed myself to get  involved in a fantasy world to the point it was more like an obligation than actual fun. I started to get  involved with helping others with their wants, and actually had a time schedule with others to raid, guild meetings, and RP events. The game does involve a lot  of research and strategy but is also extremely easy to play and lose track of time with. I told my husband I didn't want to play anymore because of the guild wanting to much of me. He looked at me kind of puzzled and said I shouldn't delete all my toons and I should just quit the guild. It took me 1 month to quit the guild, ( I know sounds crazy), because I felt badly for leaving them. I now only play while my children are in school and at night after they go to sleep. My hubby pretty much makes me go to sleep at the same time he does so I don't stay up to 3:30 am playing, which is the same time he wakes up to leave for work.  Now, I don't blame WOW for my addiction but rather myself for being so weak and not taking care of my own responsibilities.  WOTLK ( Wrath of the Lich King) will be out soon and I will have to be careful not to play all day again like I was.
 
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October 21, 2008, 10:20 am PDT

perceptions

I've been looking into this topic for quite a while now - and I'm very tired of people who keep using the same arguments to defend gamers.  So you're complaining that people are stereotyping gamers? Guess what, people who raise concerns about excessive online gameplay also get lumped into one stereotype - that of a witch hunters, haters, and worse, simpletons.

I used to be an excessive gamer, I still game but I wouldn't call myself a gamer anymore because the connotations to this term are quite clear - and I want to identify myself as someone whose life exists primarily in the physical realm, not in the virtual.

I don't see how making shallow statements like "better than outside hobbies" and "D&D used to be seen as evil" and "games are not addictive" give us any insights into this phenomenon, because quite frankly, even if you do not want to call this an addiction, there is no denying that there is a growing problem. And this is not going to be a problem that every individual can fix on their own.  It's not about laziness, or relaxing, or finding an outlet. It's about escaping. So yes, it goes beyond the games, but don't be so fast to discard online games as one of the big factors that reinforces and worsens the problem.

And no, it does not only affect people with addicted personalities - that's yet another way to play the blaming game.  Humans by nature all have obsessive type tendencies, so don't think that this affects only a small group of people.  Viewed on the entire scale of all obsessive behaviors, there are probably more people 'addicted' to one thing or another than those who are completely 'addiction-free'. So rather than denying these phenomena for each 'substance', perhaps it's time to look at it on a more global scale.
 

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October 21, 2008, 10:25 am PDT

10/20 Virtual Chaos

Quote From: melodyl

I was so grateful that Dr. Phil had a show like this. I have not seen my son in 7 years. He moved out at age 20, telling us he was going to go to game design school. That never happened. He discovered gambling, and then, when the money ran out (he never worked a day in his life), he found Second Life (which they used to allow virtual gambling). They have since stopped it inside Second Life but my son told me "we found a way around this.".

My son has several avatars. My son literally lives inside Second Life. He used to do Worlds of Warcraft, and Everquest. He obviously has an addictive behavior personality. He's also been diagnosed wih Aspergers. He is on SSI. He has an apartment, a computer, dsl line, and does nothing but play this game night and day.

We can't do anything, but if any parents out there own playstations, or watch as their kids are on the computer, don't let them near a role playing game.

I am sorry that the 21 died. This is horrible.

I actually never knew that this game can cause such depression that one can die from it.

My son has depression, is on all kinds of medication. He is lost to us.

If I had known about the potential addictions of video-gaming, I never would have bought him that nintendo set when he was younger. NEVER!!!

Then came the playstations, the game-boys, the X-boxes, and most dangerous of all...VIRTUAL REALITY GAMING.

What a shame. and what a loss!!!!

Thanks for listening.
I am sorry to hear about what has happened to your son, but there are a few things you need to understand.  Your son has a gambling problem.  He got into Second Life because it enabled him to feed his gambling problem without spending real life money.  When they disabled in-game gambling, he "found a way around it".

Your son is an especially interesting instance of this problem because he also has Aspergers, which is frightening in its own right without throwing any kind of gaming into the mix.

That being said...

It's horrible what has happened to many people who play video games to an excessive degree.  It's as bad as when people do anything else excessively.  Blaming the game for the people who play excessively is like blaming food for people who eat excessively.  It's nonsensical.  There was an underlying control issue with your son, as you have stated.

Telling parents everywhere not to let their kids near role playing games or virtual reality games is not helpful.  It's fear-mongering.  Rather, you should be telling parents to monitor how long their children are playing these games and to teach these children the most important lesson they will ever learn: Moderation, moderation, moderation.  Do everything in moderation.

If you see the signs of a gaming problem early, pull the plug early.  The longer you wait, the longer it will take to solve the underlying problems leading to excessive gaming.

Again, I am sorry for what happened to your son because of his lack of self control.  He's just barely younger than I am.  I've been down his road, although I didn't have a disorder like Asperger's standing in my way.  It's not easy to come back from.  It takes years and years of hard work.

And I have to ask you something in all honesty.  You said you haven't seen your son in seven years.  Why?  Why have you not seen your son in seven years?  I think that's the saddest part of your story, to be honest.  It's almost like you've written each other off, and that's really a tragedy.
 

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October 21, 2008, 10:26 am PDT

To add

Quote From: radin113

 Im posting for the parents who think there teens/kids are obsessed/spending to much time/money on video games etc. This is my view..I am 15 by the way.

 

Amount of time: I play video games about 2 hours a day at the most I dont have alot of time now because of school and other things. Play in moderation if your spending all your money and time on it..thats wrong and you need to get help I understand that but you made it sound like video games are bad.

 

Content:I did not watch the whole show but I thought I would say something about my views on most things in gameing..well the content first of all. Lets talk about Halo 3,Call of duty 4 and gears of war. Halo 3 is not really bad there is hardly any blood and language. Call of duty 4..there are blood splaters on the wall when you shoot an enemy in the head and there is language. And gears of war has the most blood language and guts out of those..I think if your mature enough for it go ahead and play it. But the online language and racial slurs..hey parents..guess what these games are RATED M FOR MATURE FOR MATURE AUDENICES. The media targets games like these and talks about the twelve year olds and kids below that age curseing and all that crap. ITS THERE PARENTS RESONSIBLITY to decide what there kids can play those games or not. Thats pretty much all I have to say about this..if you want to depbate on this with me my email is Truman_whitaker@live.com if you do please be mature in your email.

       I'm not sure about WoW or EQPC, but EQOA's terms of agreement clearly states that a player must be 18 years old or has parental/legal guardian permission

      I will additionally add that Game Masters like Felthius has stated; parents/legal guardians are supposed to allow their child/children complete access to their accounts. Would this not be contributing to the deleguency of a minor? I would think so, and it might be a good idea to either forego this ability by not allowing minors full access to their account as well as double check California's state laws regarding deliquency to a minor.

      Cursing, Racial Slurs, Sexual Harassment, Training, Kill Stealing, Ninja Looting, AFK XPing, and Pet Pling are all suspendable and/or Banable offenses by SOE's terms of conduct.

 

      I'm not sure how PC games operate as the only game that I play on PC is Civilization, and I don't play multiplayer. I have played Everquest Online Adventures, and my other online compatible games are Halo 2, had Socom (I would be Seanfo on that one), and Madden 06.

     My suggestion to parents of players who are minors. You really should double check California's State laws regarding Deliquency of a minors as well as other laws. You should also make sure that you have control of their accounts. Bare in mind at least by PS2's EQOA, you might run into legal repurcussions; hence, why you should additionally check into California's laws.

     My advice to wives and girlfriends of gamer others. Never under any circumstances present an addict with an affait accompli/ultimatum. You're only going to add one more reason to log in. It's much easier to expand game careers than real life ones. It's already an escape if you're thinking of it. You should try role playing to get their attention.

     To addicted gamers, you're griefing your family and other commitments. If time was a mob, it'd be a raid mob, and you've repeatedly declined your group invite. This translates into Kill Stealing. By Terms of conduct, you are also causing Zone Disruption. Do you wish to be a griefer or do you want to be a outstanding community asset? It's your call.

 
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October 21, 2008, 10:26 am PDT

W.O.W

Quote From: cjheartsaj

My husband and I saw this show today and we had no idea what this game could do to people! My husband and I actually play World of Warcraft but our play time is super limited to when our son is asleep, so we usually get in 2-3 hours a week.

Anyways

To the parents out there with children playing wow, I do believe there is a time limit tool you can use on the world of warcraft website. It allows you to go hour by hour to block when they aren't allowed to play and when they are allowed to play, and it's on a weekly schedule.

My husband had a tip to the wives out there :P if you know your husband's password and are fed up with the video game, just install a bot (something that automatically plays the game for you and will get your account cancelled) and within a couple of days your husband's (or even wife's/boyfriend/girlfriend) account could get cancelled. However..that is dishonest. My mom did it to my dad and he was pretty upset. But it works.

That is interesting about the time clock.  I am so illiterate when it comes to games on the computer.   I have a 16 yr old that plays WOW with all the free time he has. The grades are showing it now!   I would like to know how you can get on this to set the clock, if you have any more information I would so APPRECIATE it. 

 
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October 21, 2008, 10:27 am PDT

Virtual Chaos

Quote From: pdljmpr1500

It isn't just you but I find it funny when people say  "my son has been addicted to the game for over four years now."  Unless he played beta he couldn't have.  It isn't quite 4 yrs yet.  Then end of Novemeber is 4 yrs.  Sorry for splitting hairs on that. 

Devastating affliction?  No, but for some it might be.  Everyone who plays WOW isn't addicted.

You are correct about the dates for addiction to WoW.  My son was still functioning in his job and marriage but was playing Everquest.  Just as he became bored with Everquest and Wow came olong it attracted him so he switched to Wow and  that is when the trouble started.  Sorry if I left the impression he has been on Wow for "over four years."  I should have said he has been addicted to "online gaming" for over four years now.  The point I was trying to make is how excessive gaming has ruined his life.  I am not trying to blame the gaming as my son has always been a gamer and yet was able to function very well in rl.   For some reason Wow is the game that hooked him and his life is destroyed right now because he chose that particular game.  Once he started playing WoW he lost interest in rl and his vitual world was all that mattered.  He continues to deny he has a problem and yet his whole life revolves around WoW.  Unfortunately, he is not the only one trapped in a virtual world and these people desparately need help.  The problem is... where can twe go to get the necessary help?  We as parents, spouses, siblings, friends of addicted gamers are desperate because we are trying to deal with this problem ourselves.  Who would have thought online gaming would turn into an addiction?  Certainly not us!!!  And that is exactly what we are facing because people don't believe it is possible.  Groups like Olganon are our only source at this time and we would sink under the strain if it wasn't for them, but we need more.  That is what we are trying to achieve... professional help that can concentrate on helping our loved ones break free of their addictions.
 
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