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Topic : 12/03 Families under Fire

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Created on : Wednesday, November 26, 2008, 07:23:13 am
Author : DrPhilBoard1
As the nation faces a collapsing financial market, record job losses and a foreclosure crisis, is your marriage strong enough to survive the storm? Bishop T.D. Jakes, renowned pastor and author of Before You Do, joins Dr. Phil to discuss how families can brave tough times. First up, Karen says she and her husband, Walter, were living the American Dream: a loving marriage, a beautiful home and a 20-acre farm. But when she quit her job for health reasons two years ago, bills began piling up, and Karen fears her spouse is cracking under the pressure. She says Walter gets tense, pounds his head with his fists and blames her for their mounting debt. Walter admits that he can hurl insults when he and Karen fight over their finances, but says Karen’s carelessness with credit cards is driving them further into the red. Find out what Karen says her husband did that pushed her over the edge. Can Dr. Phil and Bishop Jakes get the couple back on track? Then, Sherida and Brandon have been married for three months, but instead of enjoying their honeymoon, they say their relationship is already on the rocks. Sherida says that Brandon has a law degree, but he refuses to get a job, and she’s tired of being the sole provider. Brandon says he’s waiting on a higher power to provide. Can Sherida and Brandon salvage their union, or should she cut her losses? Plus, don’t miss Dr. Phil’s survival plan to get your marriage through the economic meltdown. Talk about the show here.

Find out what happened on the show.

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December 4, 2008, 7:10 am CST

Trained to be good little Soldiers and Princesses

 

 

Trained to be Good little Soldiers and Princesses

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0334472920070803

 

          As for Females leaving the domestic role for information age skills and income.  The nineteenth century belief Females should be protected has created much protection and support for Females from day one.  Since Females are not required by society to be strong, it is considered proper to not only protect them but to also lavish much mental, emotional, social, academic, support, knowledge, and skills from day one.  This creates lower average stress and lots of supported skills that enable girls to really do well in the information age.  Girls are also given love, honor, respect, and support simply for being girls. This makes learning and development of skills and competing for jobs somewhat easier for they are given the essentials of self-worth simply for being girls.  All of this makes girls "very well prepared" to compete in the information age.  This support and protection continues even into adulthood.  Today this allows not only much economic advantage but also maintains the same protected freedoms of expression to give verbal, silent abuse, and hollow kindness to Males when they have some advantage (look at how the media allows this).

 

          Males who are generally anti-feminists and also Females (who tend to reflect for some reason their protected world upon Males) really do not understand how differential treatment from day one is providing Females with such an advantage that is creating the Growing international Male Crisis, but those Males though lacking understanding do feel the effects of that differential treatment. 

 

          Males are given love, honor, support, respect, care, etc. only on the condition of sufficient achievement, money, power, etc.  This is what makes Males very competitive; they are competing for feelings of self-worth as reflected upon them by society if they have sufficiency of those things.  When they are doing anything they are being weighed and given only the amount of love, honor, respect, and support commensurate with those achievements.  Those Males who do not have sufficiency are not only given less of those good things, they are given more aggression by society.  This creates a lot more pressure on Males to either succeed in academics, which is good; and if they cannot, then they will search out a more protected and supported area in which they will have some feeling of love, honor, and respect from their peer group. 

 

          Since our society is still following even in the information age, the belief Males should be strong, it still allows much aggression upon Males to make them tough.  It also holds that Males should not be given mental/emotional/social/academic love, kindness, care and support for fear of coddling the Male from day one.  This is so the Male can become a good little soldier to defend family and country.  The problem with this is that it creates high average stress that impedes learning and creates along it more tension that leads more activity in Males and attention to mental/emotional development. This is why girls mature faster, for Males are not given the same supports.  This higher average stress and lack of support accumulate to create a large deficit in learning for Males. 

 

          Now in the information age, Males are now competing with Females who have been well supported from day one and Males are beginning fall behind big time, especially from women in their 20's and early 30's.

 

          Men are not only losing jobs, they are losing out on feelings of self-worth or love, honor, and respect from society.  It is plainly spelled out in the media that when Males appear weak, it is okay to give them more verbal aggression, more abuse, and more neglect.  Since Men have brainwashed to believe they are better (perhaps deserving of more harsh treatment and neglect) they are now finding out that in real life such treatment is somehow helping women to succeed above them. Given the horrible myth of fixed intelligences taught in our society or simply working harder, many men are falsely believing they are less intelligent and/or not working hard enough.  Given this false information, they truly feel threatened by those women who are succeeding and they are not.  Society itself and its media is now working against the Male to place Male's into perceived positions of being more suitable for menial labor and for Females to be placed into more white collar, management positions.

 

          On Dr. Phil today a man was very violent toward his wife.  She is now very afraid of him.  His wife loved him and wanted to help him.  It was brought out that man had fallen down on ability to support his wife and family.  Even though that man was supported by his wife, the societal belief he should be strong was consuming him.  You see even though he had lots of support from his wife, society in general not only does not provide love, honor, respect, and care, the essentials of feelings of self-worth, it rejects that man for not having sufficient achievement, status, image,  money, etc. 

 

          Thus, that man like many other men today are losing their feelings of self-worth that women receive simply for being women.  His wife could not understand his dilemma. because like many other women, she was reflecting her love, honor, respect, and protection in society upon him, not realizing his world was very different and much more unforgiving for signs of weakness. You see society's primary antidote for perceived weaknesses in Males is to provide more aggression and neglect to make him strong, and not to support him when he is down.  So, although his wife supports him with love, society will take him down for being weak.  After years of brainwashing, he and others like him believe it to be true and deserving of punishment.  This is why so many Males have a short life and so many more Male suicides.  Yes, Males do feel threatened by feminists for they feel the scales are tilted very much against them. 

Complete learning theory to all on request by e-mail at mayfieldga@bellsouth.net

 

 
December 4, 2008, 8:22 am CST

It's his show

Quote From: cndrlla

You are trying to come off as so progressive....but, in reality, you are just as narrow-minded as those who believe in "that stupid book" as you so rudely call it.

 

It seems that you look down upon those who believe in God and have a faith....but perhaps people are just as frustrated with those who share your views as you are with those who don't.

 

Believe what you choose, and don't put people down for their choices. There's room for us all in this world.

 

Chill.

I understand that there are different points of view in this world about "a higher being",  but it is "The Dr. Phil Show" and he can pretty much have anyone on his show he chooses and pick whatever topic he wants to have.  He can also bring on the show, Dr's, preachers, detectives, lawyers and anyone else he feels he needs to help him with his show participants.  

You in that respect have the right not to watch.  

 

A believer in Christ.

 

 

 
December 4, 2008, 9:18 am CST

Enjoyed this show

The show was a good perspective and I enjoyed T. D. Jakes comments.  I am a Christian and find that many people have subscribed to the woe is me attitude.  The fact that there are tough times means that people need to be resourceful.  The statement that the first gentleman made about a foolish financial decision is I think a common element in the crisis.  The reality is many foolish descisions can impact in marriages in many ways.  I choose to see the glass as 1/2 full not 1/2 empty not blame them but accept the consequences and find a solution. 

 

As for the second couple, it may not be possbile now to find a great job.  The job market continues to be very weak, instead the husband can do his part and become the home executive!  They have young children and it is important to provide a place of stability for them.  He can run the home and be there as a support for his wife who is working in a tough world right now.

 

You have said in the past about the soft place....perhaps these husbands could provide the support that their wives really need from them and be their partners.

 

Liz

in Pennsylvania

 

 

 

 

 
December 4, 2008, 12:22 pm CST

Sorry for bringing this up, but...

Quote From: shelly_80

I stand corrected it was SIX TIMES!

He, shelly, sorry for bring up this old subject, but renophil has just posted to your recent comment.

 

http://drphil.com/messageboard/topic/3655/22/

 
December 4, 2008, 11:27 pm CST

A response to your response.

Quote From: shelly_80

You are right.  There is no "man in the sky" because He's not a physical being, He is a Spirit!!! Therefore, you can't "see" Him.  You referred to God as a SHE.  How can you be so certain He is a SHE?  We refer to Him not only as Jesus' Father but as everyone's Heavenly Father who accepts Him into their life.  Correct me if I'm wrong but aren't all fathers of the male persuasion?  So, they would require the pronouns he and him, right?

 

It really isn't a matter of right or wrong, politically correct or incorrect.  That is what we as Christians believe.  Likewise, you have the right to believe what you choose but don't forget we possess that same right.  What I need help in understandiing, are the people who can't or won't accept the fact that EVERYONE has a right to believe what they choose.  I just don't get being offended at someone elses right to believe.  If one chooses to turn their back on God, that's between them and God.  That's not my cross to bear, so why would I be concerned?   It is in our belief that we as Christians are supposed to try to turn others to Christ but they have to be willing with an open heart first.  It's a lot like trying to force an addict off drugs/alcohol, it WILL NOT happen until that person is ready!  Did you ever happen to see the picture of Jesus standing and knocking on the door?  Did you notice the door has no handle on the outside.  That's because the only way for him to come in is if you let him in.

 I was making a joke when I wrote the title "When God Made Man SHE Was Only Joking"... I was using humor there to make a point. :o)

I never said you didn't have a right to your beliefs or that I was offended by your "right to believe"... I said that when people use the words "He" or "Him" it offends me.  I think your beliefs are a fairy tale.  That's my opinion.  But you have every right to believe them.  I never said you didn't.   I just said your use of the male pronoun was offensive to me as a woman and limiting, in my opinion. 

Again, I think the use of the male pronoun creates a very strong image that is not a true image of the Force in the Universe.  And I wish we as a society would grow past it.  It's childish in my opinion.

But you have every right to believe it... again I never said you didn't.

Peace!
 
December 4, 2008, 11:36 pm CST

Yes I was frustrated... thus the use of the word.

Quote From: shelly_80

Are you aware that you stated you are frustrated FIVE TIMES in the above post?  WE GOT IT THE FIRST TIME!   Do you honestly think that by voicing your frustations, which happens to be one voice, that Dr. Phil will just stop having T.D. Jakes or anyone else that offends YOU on the show?  I'd seriously have to doubt it! 

 

Dr. Phil didn't have Bishop T.D. Jakes on the show to cram Christianity down the viewers throats.  He had him on the show to share his expertise and give those two couples guidance in their marital issues.  And if you were capable of getting over yourself for ONE SECOND you would be able to see that.  Do you think Dr. Phil thinks "Oh I better not have this person or that person on the show for fear of offending A VIEWER?" NO!  His main concern are his guests and what he thinks might get them through their problems. In all honesty he doesn't determine the shows, the producers do.

 I never said I thought he would stop having TD Jakes on just because I didn't like it.  I was just voicing my opinion.  I question your discomfort with me voicing my opinion.  And your tone is not very accepting of someone else's feelings.  Yes I did use the word frustrated a bunch of times, because I was expressign my honest feelings.  There is nothing wrong with me doing that.  That is what these message boards are for... for us to express our feelings and our thoughts.

Respectfully,
JennInCali
 
December 4, 2008, 11:47 pm CST

12/03 Families under Fire

Quote From: cndrlla

You are trying to come off as so progressive....but, in reality, you are just as narrow-minded as those who believe in "that stupid book" as you so rudely call it.

 

It seems that you look down upon those who believe in God and have a faith....but perhaps people are just as frustrated with those who share your views as you are with those who don't.

 

Believe what you choose, and don't put people down for their choices. There's room for us all in this world.

 

Chill.

 No I'm not "trying to come off as progressive", and I don't appreciate you telling me what my motivations are or reading my inventory as to what my inner thoughts are.

To me the bible is a stupid book.  I'm sorry if that offended you but that is my honest opinion of it.

As for it seeming that I look down upon those who believe in God and have faith, actually I don't.  I am deeply spiritual and do believe in a Higher Power/Force in the Universe.  But I will admit that I do get frustrated with people who believe in a man in the sky that judges and rewards, etc.  and people who believe in a book that was written thousands of years ago by men who had their own biases and issues.  I think it is a very limiting view of the Force that moves through all things (or God).

As for putting people down for their choices, I'm sorry if you felt put down. It wasn't my intention.  I was just very frustrated with that show and what I see as a very limiting view that I believe holds us back.

As for the "Chill" comment, that comes off to me as you telling me that my feelings are overblown or inappropriate and I don't agree with you there.  I have a right to my feelings of frustration and I don't apologize for that.  If I offended you I apologize, but I don't apologize for my overall feeling of frustration.  And I don't apologize for communicating my feelings either.  I think it is a very healthy thing to do, to talk about this stuff and bring stuff out in the open for discussion.  That's what The Dr. Phil show is all about.

Peace!
 
December 4, 2008, 11:58 pm CST

A love story?... Say what?????

Quote From: blondeangel

I felt the same way about the Bible until I actually read it.  I was so wrong. Jesus was a Jew and we call ourselves Christ   ians. Just because we love Christ. But he was Jewish. The book was written by Jews all of it. So there you are. IF you have something against the Jews.........I can't help you.

Just read the book.........give it a chance and don't believe what everyone else says when they try to run it down. You need to read it yourself and then decide. Get a good translation that is easy to read like the New International Version that uses current english. It is a love story. One you shouldn't miss.

A LOVE STORY?  WHAT ABOUT THESE PASSAGES?  (Just to name a few... I could go on and on):

"...for I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, punishing the children for the sin of the fathers to the third and fourth generation of those who hate me." Exodus 20:5
  "in flaming fire taking vengeance on those who know not God, and those who do not obey the glad tidings of our Lord Jesus Christ." 2 Thessalonians 1:8

OR HOW ABOUT THESE?  YOU FIND THESE TO BE LOVE STORY MATERIAL?  I FIND THEM MISOGYINISTIC:

"As in all the churches of the saints, the women should keep silence in the churches. For they are not permitted to speak, but should be subordinate, as even the law says. If there is anything they desire to know, let them ask their husbands at home. For it is shameful for a woman to speak in church."
..........1 Corinthians 14:34

"Wives, be subject to your husbands, as to the Lord."
..........Ephesians 5:22

"Let a woman learn in silence with all submissiveness. I permit no woman to teach or have authority over men; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor."
..........Timothy 2:11

"For the wife does not rule over her own body, but the husband does..."
..........1 Corinthians 7:4

"Likewise, you wives, be submissive to your husbands..."
..........1 Peter 3:1   "They were submissive to their own husbands, like Sarah who obeyed Abraham and called him her master." ..........1 Peter 3:5

"For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman but woman for man."
..........1 Corinthians, 11:8



 
December 5, 2008, 12:04 am CST

12/03 Families under Fire

Quote From: tlv1202

I understand that there are different points of view in this world about "a higher being",  but it is "The Dr. Phil Show" and he can pretty much have anyone on his show he chooses and pick whatever topic he wants to have.  He can also bring on the show, Dr's, preachers, detectives, lawyers and anyone else he feels he needs to help him with his show participants.  

You in that respect have the right not to watch.  

 

A believer in Christ.

 

 

 I never said he couldn't bring someone on.  I said that I was frustrated that he had him on.  Those are two very different things.  I think it's pretty obvious that he can have anyone on he chooses (as a matter of fact I mentioned that in my first post.  You'll see it if you re-read it.)... I was merely sharing my feelings of frustration about it.  There's nothing wrong with me doing that either.

Respectfully,
JennInCali
(A believer in the power of the Universe that expresses itself in countless ways, not just one way)
 
December 5, 2008, 12:09 am CST

Very interesting theory...

Quote From: mayfieldga

 

 

Trained to be Good little Soldiers and Princesses

 

http://www.reuters.com/article/lifestyleMolt/idUSN0334472920070803

 

          As for Females leaving the domestic role for information age skills and income.  The nineteenth century belief Females should be protected has created much protection and support for Females from day one.  Since Females are not required by society to be strong, it is considered proper to not only protect them but to also lavish much mental, emotional, social, academic, support, knowledge, and skills from day one.  This creates lower average stress and lots of supported skills that enable girls to really do well in the information age.  Girls are also given love, honor, respect, and support simply for being girls. This makes learning and development of skills and competing for jobs somewhat easier for they are given the essentials of self-worth simply for being girls.  All of this makes girls "very well prepared" to compete in the information age.  This support and protection continues even into adulthood.  Today this allows not only much economic advantage but also maintains the same protected freedoms of expression to give verbal, silent abuse, and hollow kindness to Males when they have some advantage (look at how the media allows this).

 

          Males who are generally anti-feminists and also Females (who tend to reflect for some reason their protected world upon Males) really do not understand how differential treatment from day one is providing Females with such an advantage that is creating the Growing international Male Crisis, but those Males though lacking understanding do feel the effects of that differential treatment. 

 

          Males are given love, honor, support, respect, care, etc. only on the condition of sufficient achievement, money, power, etc.  This is what makes Males very competitive; they are competing for feelings of self-worth as reflected upon them by society if they have sufficiency of those things.  When they are doing anything they are being weighed and given only the amount of love, honor, respect, and support commensurate with those achievements.  Those Males who do not have sufficiency are not only given less of those good things, they are given more aggression by society.  This creates a lot more pressure on Males to either succeed in academics, which is good; and if they cannot, then they will search out a more protected and supported area in which they will have some feeling of love, honor, and respect from their peer group. 

 

          Since our society is still following even in the information age, the belief Males should be strong, it still allows much aggression upon Males to make them tough.  It also holds that Males should not be given mental/emotional/social/academic love, kindness, care and support for fear of coddling the Male from day one.  This is so the Male can become a good little soldier to defend family and country.  The problem with this is that it creates high average stress that impedes learning and creates along it more tension that leads more activity in Males and attention to mental/emotional development. This is why girls mature faster, for Males are not given the same supports.  This higher average stress and lack of support accumulate to create a large deficit in learning for Males. 

 

          Now in the information age, Males are now competing with Females who have been well supported from day one and Males are beginning fall behind big time, especially from women in their 20's and early 30's.

 

          Men are not only losing jobs, they are losing out on feelings of self-worth or love, honor, and respect from society.  It is plainly spelled out in the media that when Males appear weak, it is okay to give them more verbal aggression, more abuse, and more neglect.  Since Men have brainwashed to believe they are better (perhaps deserving of more harsh treatment and neglect) they are now finding out that in real life such treatment is somehow helping women to succeed above them. Given the horrible myth of fixed intelligences taught in our society or simply working harder, many men are falsely believing they are less intelligent and/or not working hard enough.  Given this false information, they truly feel threatened by those women who are succeeding and they are not.  Society itself and its media is now working against the Male to place Male's into perceived positions of being more suitable for menial labor and for Females to be placed into more white collar, management positions.

 

          On Dr. Phil today a man was very violent toward his wife.  She is now very afraid of him.  His wife loved him and wanted to help him.  It was brought out that man had fallen down on ability to support his wife and family.  Even though that man was supported by his wife, the societal belief he should be strong was consuming him.  You see even though he had lots of support from his wife, society in general not only does not provide love, honor, respect, and care, the essentials of feelings of self-worth, it rejects that man for not having sufficient achievement, status, image,  money, etc. 

 

          Thus, that man like many other men today are losing their feelings of self-worth that women receive simply for being women.  His wife could not understand his dilemma. because like many other women, she was reflecting her love, honor, respect, and protection in society upon him, not realizing his world was very different and much more unforgiving for signs of weakness. You see society's primary antidote for perceived weaknesses in Males is to provide more aggression and neglect to make him strong, and not to support him when he is down.  So, although his wife supports him with love, society will take him down for being weak.  After years of brainwashing, he and others like him believe it to be true and deserving of punishment.  This is why so many Males have a short life and so many more Male suicides.  Yes, Males do feel threatened by feminists for they feel the scales are tilted very much against them. 

Complete learning theory to all on request by e-mail at mayfieldga@bellsouth.net

 

 Thanks for sharing this theory/thesis of yours.  It is very interesting and enlightening and articulates some of the issues I have with the danger of the stereotypical roles we force on both sexes.  I agree that we cripple men by telling them they can't share their fears and feelings.  I don't think we are doing anyone a favor by forcing them into a "role".  Good stuff!
 
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