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Topic : 09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

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Created on : Friday, September 09, 2005, 03:42:10 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

It's a story that captured national attention and struck fear in the hearts of parents everywhere. Eighteen-year-old Natalee Holloway disappeared during a senior class trip to the island of Aruba. Now, Dr. Phil uncovers information never before revealed.  Tune in for exclusive interviews -- some potentially incriminating -- with witnesses, suspects and their families and friends. Find out what the polygraph says about a crucial witness, and hear Natalee's mom describe how the horror of losing her precious daughter unfolded over one heartbreaking summer. Share your thoughts here.

 

Find out what happened on the show.

 

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October 1, 2005, 7:37 am PDT

Letters to Aruba

I have never so much as emailed your show Dr. Phil but I have followed Natalie Holloways story for months now and sent letters to all the Aruban authorities you listed online.  Maybe I can help make a difference. 

 
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October 1, 2005, 7:09 pm PDT

How low can you go

Quote From: dms0959

HERE'S AN IDEA - CANCEL THE CRUISE!! DONT GO!!
    And what if every other country does this to USA :S Here in Holland we are just laughing to your reactions, it's not normal anymore hahaha so funny to boycot aruba and holland. We are really affraid NOT    
 
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October 1, 2005, 9:34 pm PDT

PART II - INDIGO RESPONSE

Quote From: indigo

Pff, you're making way too long text to read it all, so i'm just reacting on your last post.
Maybe you could try to put your texts in little pieces? That's much better to read and 

allows you to put forward your statement better. The trick for that is to make a text start and 

end with the thing you want to get across. In between you can put arguments to underline  

your statement. So you get: statement - arguments - statement. And then another little piece 

of text. Sorry, this is kind of a habit of mine: editing texts. So, i hope you won't feel offended. 

I only mean this as a little help :) 

  

Anyway, back on-topic.
What I'd like to say first, is that ìf Joran has done something wrong, he must be held responsable 

for that. But, and i've said so already in a previous message: do not convict him before there is any 

evidence. I think judges are quite capable of figuring out if he's guilty or not. That's why they have that job.
Second: the person quoted most in this article is Beth Holloway Twitty. With all respect for her 

grief, but you can hardly call her impartial in this case. I do fully understand her need to find out 

wath has happened to her daughter and who has done it, but she is playing judge here and i do 

not think that's right. 

Third: how old are the guys that are accused? 18,19? Something like that. I cannot remember right now. They are mere boys. I am not saying it's a good thing, but scared kids might resolve to lying. 

It's not okay, but it happens. 

As for the rest of this post, do your research in a THOROUGH manner. For starters, look up the definition for impartial. You may realize the judge who released the suspects was “hardly impartial”, NOT Beth. As for “the evidence”, there is evidence to account for the suspects wrongdoing, and for each/every time each one of them broke the law in 2003, 2004, and 2005. For many including myself, it is only a matter of time for the suspects and other relevant/potentially relevant participants/suspects [Paulus, Jan, Anita, Mrs. Kalpoe, etc.,] to be held accountable, responsible and punished by the law. They are NOT mere boys; THEY ARE OLD ENOUGH TO KNOW BETTER! They LIED because they are involved in Natalee’s disappearance. They were NOT scared; their actions were and remain arrogant, unremorseful and disturbing. Equally disturbing, they belittled the victim, Natalee. Acknowledge the fact the innocent have no need to lie, or no need to belittle the victim.
 
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October 1, 2005, 11:24 pm PDT

Convicted or Convected?

Quote From: indigo

Just one little question here: is the guy convected of anything yet??? 

Answer: no, he is not.   

See, you might very well be barking up the wrong tree, while the person 

who is responsible for the missing of Natalee is still running free. 

  

By the way: someone stated that hardly any efforts have been made 

to find Natalee. That is a silly thing to say, since it is not true. There have 

even been F16 planes searching the island to find the girl! And that is just 

one of many efforts. 

INDIGO – Do your research in the Natalee Holloway case in a more thorough manner. Also, educate yourself on the Aruban/Dutch laws and definitions for the following, as well as, the penalties and convictions for: premeditated or not premeditated - rape, date rape, date rape drugs, sexual assault, sex offenders, sexual predators, assault, kidnapping, murder, underage drinking, underage gambling, purchasing hard alcohol as minor, driving under the influence, driving while intoxicated, as well as, impeding or misleading an investigation by not telling the truth and the whole truth, tampering with evidence, with holding evidence, destroying evidence, etc. THEN ASK YOURSELF THAT “LITTLE QUESTION”: IS THE GUY [JORAN] CONVICTED [NOT CONVECTED] OF ANYTHING YET? ARE THE KALPOE BROTHERS CONVICTED OF ANYTHING YET? IS PAULUS CONVICTED OF ANYTHING YET? [WHY NOT START THERE WITH YOUR QUESTIONS]ISN’T THAT SHOCKING GIVEN WHAT YOU KNOW, NOW THAT YOU HAVE DONE YOUR RESEARCH?
 
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October 1, 2005, 11:27 pm PDT

Barking up the wrong tree or not?

Quote From: indigo

Just one little question here: is the guy convected of anything yet??? 

Answer: no, he is not.   

See, you might very well be barking up the wrong tree, while the person 

who is responsible for the missing of Natalee is still running free. 

  

By the way: someone stated that hardly any efforts have been made 

to find Natalee. That is a silly thing to say, since it is not true. There have 

even been F16 planes searching the island to find the girl! And that is just 

one of many efforts. 

I have to give you some credit for this statement, “See, you might very well be barking up the wrong tree, while the person who is responsible for the missing of Natalee is still running free.” That made me laugh, that was a good one INDIGO, given the PRIME suspect/s, JORAN is “RUNNING FREE”, as well as, the KALPOE BROTHERS, [and PAULUS, etc.] All of the above were released and are currently running free. Ask yourself these most basic questions. Would you feel comfortable if your daughter, your niece, your female friend was currently attending the Arnhem Business School along with Joran? Or went on “a date” or “was drinking” with Joran in Aruba, in Arnhem, in The Netherlands, or anywhere for that matter? Would you feel comfortable if your daughter, your niece, your female friend hung out with Deepak/Satish in Aruba, or at Carlos & Charlie’s, or got into their car, or went anywhere with either or both of them? Ask yourself the same or similar questions but substitute Paulus Van Der Sloot. Then ask yourself, given what you now know, if you are barking up the wrong tree or not?
 
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October 1, 2005, 11:30 pm PDT

as for "their efforts to find Natalee" take this into consideration

Quote From: indigo

Just one little question here: is the guy convected of anything yet??? 

Answer: no, he is not.   

See, you might very well be barking up the wrong tree, while the person 

who is responsible for the missing of Natalee is still running free. 

  

By the way: someone stated that hardly any efforts have been made 

to find Natalee. That is a silly thing to say, since it is not true. There have 

even been F16 planes searching the island to find the girl! And that is just 

one of many efforts. 

As for “their efforts to find Natalee” take this into consideration. QUOTE BY SM: “He [Rudy Croes Minister of Justice] can’t understand her [Beth] attitude. People may agree or disagree with Beth Twitty’s reaction to how she is handling the disappearance of Natalee, but I hardly think anyone can say they can’t understand her attitude. Newsflash … her daughter has vanished into thin air while vacationing on your island Justice Minister Croes. 10 days went by before your justice system ever arrested the last people ever to be seen with Natalee. They have reportedly lied during interrogations and Joran has admitted they all three conspired to lie to investigators in the beginning. Searches of the three suspects homes were delayed as 2 security guards were originally arrested. All three suspects last seen with Natalee are free walking the streets of Aruba and seemingly contradicting their stories in interviews. The frustration level alone of no answers and no sign of her daughter right or wrong is enough to make anyone act like this. The lack of perceived cooperation and communication even referenced by Dave Holloway the other night is enough to cause complete frustration. Do you really wonder why or how Beth Twitty could not have this attitude? Really? Your own Prime Minister, [ARUBA] the leader of your party has stated mistakes were made. Some how you can’t understand a mother’s frustration that her daughter has vanished. What is even more amazing about Minister Croes’ comments is they seemingly care more about the affects of tourism rather than the where abouts of missing teen, Natalee Holloway. Every time one turns around there is a reference to tourism. Here lies the rub. As much as it is a concern to Minister Croes and Aruba, tourism is not the concern of Beth Twitty. Getting her daughter back is.” ASK YOURSELF, PERHAPS F-16’S WOULD NOT HAVE BEEN NECESSARY IF THE ABOVE HAD NOT OCCURRED IN THE NATALEE HOLLOWAY INVESTIGATION/CASE?
 
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October 1, 2005, 11:34 pm PDT

SM article about Croes sentiment: "...Croes does not rule out the possibility to shut her [BETH] up..."

STATEMENT: Croes does not consider taking measures against Twitty yet, but does not rule out the possibility to shut her up in the future. ############################# QUOTE BY SM: “SHUT HER UP IN THE FUTURE? This is a government position to an American mother whose daughter was on vacation in Aruba (of which Americans make up 70% of the Aruban tourism) and vanished without a trace? I had wondered in the past about the comments against Aruba about the purposeful letting out the suspects while Americans backs were turned and focused on hurricanes in the Gulf Coast, Labor Day festivities and the death of a Chief Supreme Court Justice. I had wondered whether it was true about the increased fees for satellite feeds. I questioned whether the comment made to Beth about when was she leaving for good may have been slightly taken out of contest. With an attitude of “shutting someone up” it really makes me wonder. So in other words, the message from Rudy Croes is, unless you play by our rules we not only won’t do anything, we will shut you up?”
 
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October 2, 2005, 11:40 am PDT

Right Said Fred

Quote From: netje2205

http://www.lostremote.com/archives/005685.html 

  

Aruba: Murder by numbers
As Coverage Mania of the Holloway story continues unabated, let's do some math. I know - we got into journalism precisely because we were told there would be no math. But let's do some anyway and answer empirically: Just how dangerous is that vicious, pirate-ridden, uncaring island of Aruba?

BY STEVE SAFRAN
LOST REMOTE MANAGING EDITOR

The population of Aruba is about 72,000 people. A conservative estimate of visitors in a given week is about 13,500. Total people on island at any given time? About 85,500.

Last year in Aruba there were two murders - possibly just one, depending on which stat you believe. We'll go with two anyway. No tourists were killed. That's a murder rate on Aruba of a little over 2 per 100,000, but we’ll call it an even 2. Or look at it this way: The Aruba murder rate is .0002.

Still, you can't go a minute without hearing about Natalee and you're worried. Maybe you're switching your vacation from Aruba to Jamaica. Bring some Kevlar. Murder rate: 32 per 100,000.

You'll be twice as safe in Puerto Rico as you would be in Jamaica. Still, it's eight times more dangerous than Aruba: 16 per 100,000 folks in Puerto Rico are going to meet an untimely end this year (with or without Greta Van Sustern caring).

If you're fine with 10 in 100,000 murders per capita, we can suggest Mexico, Estonia, Belize, the Dominican Republic and maybe Barbados during a bad year. Feel a little more secure in Costa Rica. Of your 100,000 friends, 99,994 won't get capped.

So, stick to the U.S. Virgin Islands. We run it. How bad could it be? Turns out you better leave behind a lot of clues if you're going there: 25 murders per 100,000. That's worse than ANY American city, save for New Orleans where shooting guns into the air is considered good, clean fun. The British Virgin Islands are more polite, but say “cheerio” to 11 per 100,000 chaps.

Screw it, you think, I'll just stay home. Now you're only three times as likely to be killed as if you went to Aruba, with the U.S. murder rate at about 6 per 100,000. The murder rate in New York City, from where Fox News constantly reminds us how dangerous Aruba is, was 7 per 100,000 people in 2002. And if your home is in, let's say, Alabama, up the murder rate to 7.5 per 100,000. Then wonder if one of your congressman will call for a boycott of your own state.

Obviously, there are safer places to vacation than Aruba. Go to Slovenia, Tunisia, Indonesia, Saudi Arabia or Qatar and you're golden. Go to Canada, and you're as safe as you could be. Of course, it's colder than Aruba, but the murder rate is tiny. And it's much less likely your family will be pestered by Nancy Grace. She's from the south. She hates the cold.

I got a certain amount of hate mail regarding my last column on Aruba media insanity. (Ironically,
Aruba Today's editor said she loved it.) One eloquent writer asked "Do you have a life?" I think it's pretty obvious the answer is "No, of course not. I work in news." One person asked, simply "What is your point?" Context. That's my point. I am not mocking this tragedy, nor the importance of it to the family. What I am so troubled by is a national media obsession that is making Aruba look as though it is run by the Sopranos. Before we ruin the Aruban economy, which is dependent on tourism, here is a little more context:

Natalee disappeared on May 30, 2005. Also on that date, five U.S. soldiers died in Iraq: Corp. Jeffrey B. Starr died in Ramadi, and SSGT. Casey Crate, Captain Derek Argel, Captain Jeremy Fresques and Major William Downes died in Jalawah.

There are currently 19 kids from Alabama listed as missing at the
National Center for Missing and Exploited Children website. (2 are from before 1980, some are indeed "family abductions" or "runaways".)

In South Africa, two young tourists were murdered the day after Natalee went missing.

LaToyia Figueroa, a 24-year-old pregnant woman from South Philadelphia, has been missing since July. She is Black. There has been just about no media coverage (except for stories wondering why there's no media coverage). Contrast that with the non-stop madness surrounding Laci Peterson, a 27-year-old pregnant woman from Modesto, California, who was white.

35,000 children are forced to work as prostitutes just across the sea from Aruba, in Colombia.

It's unlikely you’ll be murdered in Aruba, and it’s even more unlikely the news will care. Of course, there are ways to skew the numbers. It turns out you can geometrically expand the odds of having your story covered if you’re a cute white girl with an articulate mother during a slow news cycle. This should generate a significant spike in ratings numbers; after all, that’s the only stat that really matters.

Sources:

Pan American Health Organization (PAHO), International Comparisons of Criminal Justice Statistics 2001-Home Office Bulletin 12/03 http://www.ascotadvisory.com/News_Bulletin/9961.html

Georgia State U. Department of Criminal Justice Statistical Analysis Bureau: http://www.cjgsu.net/initiatives/HomRates-2004-05-14.htm
Iraq Casualties from Centcom.mil, via Iraq Coalition Casualty Count http://icasualties.org/oif/ Black America Web: http://www.blackamericaweb.com/site.aspx/bawnews/figueroa808
Colombia Journal Online:
http://www.colombiajournal.org/colombia111.htm

With assistance (and math help) from: Julia Renfro, Editor in Chief, Aruba Today; RD Sahl, Anchor, NECN: Jeff Gralnick, MSNBC; Tom Melville, Asst. ND, NECN
Posted by Steve Safran on 08/16/05 Link Comments (15)
 

Whoever wrote this is so right! I support this 100%! I believe Joran is guilty and it's outrageous he got away with this (let's hope that's just for now), but to slander an entire island and to try and ruin their economy because of what one person did is equally as outrageous. Let's not forget, for example, how long it took before Scott Peterson was finally convicted. Let's not forget the BTK killer who got away with numerous murders for decades, untill they finally caught him. Let's not forget Jon Benet, who's killer still isn't caught. Let's not forget in the sixties they even got to the American president and some people are still not convinced the right killer has been caught. Let's not forget the celebrities who got away with murder like OJ and MJ. All this happened in the U.S. And do we therefore condemn the U.S. or slander the ones who made mistakes in such cases? No, we don't. We still love this country. We should not tear down Aruba because of what a few people did and because of mistakes made by cops and governments. Because there are still many goodhearted, hardworking everyday people living in Aruba, just trying to get by like you and me. All we can do is pray for Nathalee and her mom and the rest of her family. We can encourage her, we can pray for justice to be done someday, like justice was finally done for Laci. We can even pray for the miracle of Joran finally confessing or something. But we can't tear Aruba down as a nation, simply because we  "don't get what we want" and Nathalee's an American. Did the government sent even one F-16 to try and locate Laci over the SanFrancisco Bay? No way. What did the dutch do? Send in three F-16's within a month's time. (Do correct me if I got the time schedule wrong, I apologize). It's true, we just need a little perspective here. We have our suspicions and our opinions and we should apply reason when forming them.  As humans we have but one obligation to other humans and that is to give our respect and our love. Let's do that for Nathalee and her Mom and for the Aruban people who's future we don't need to destroy. 

  

Nini 

 
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October 3, 2005, 8:03 am PDT

09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

Hear, hear! That makes a lot more sense than al the other agressive talking around here :)
Really, i'm not even going to react on you comments, concern. Short, reasonable talking: yes.
But how can i react on half a book? Especially with the agressive tone you use.
You don't have to convince me Joran has done something wrong. I am not falling for that. 

I stand with what i have been saying all along some-one is guilty, when a judge says so. 

  

(and i do think it is very childish to pick on my for a typo or a minor mistake in spelling. English is not my mother tongue) 

 
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October 3, 2005, 9:31 am PDT

09/15 The Disappearance of Natalee

Quote From: jbalke

     Beth and Natalee Holloway (and their family) are just as much victims of Hurricane Katrina as the people of the Gulf Coast, especially those who lost family members to violence there. If the "happy island" of Aruba thinks that Americans have not noticed that as soon as the world's media was focused elsewhere, that they released these slimeballs from custody, they can just go "check their foot" as my father in law used to say. We know exactly what they've been up to all along-a GIANT COVERUP! Anyone, American or otherwise, who goes there, knowing what happened in this case, is not only falling for this crap, but actually making the statement that it was perfectly okay for Aruban authorities to treat a tourist this way. Wise up, folks! They only want your MONEY. They don't give a damn about YOU.  There are just too many other equally nice or better islands to vacation on. WHO NEEDS ARUBA and THEIR INCOMPENT POLICE DEPARTMENT and their nasty attitude.
    Beth, Jug and the rest of Natalee's family and friends, God be with you. You will be in our hearts and prayers until you find your answers.
    Julie and Jim
    Jacksonville, FL
   

First of all I want to say that I feel very sorry for Natalee's family.. 

  

however.. you shouldn't believe texts translated by a web site.. The original (Dutch) article is very different.. Strip in Dutch is a comicbook.. (that was one of the many things i found in the translated article) so please keep in mind the credibility of the article.. 

  

Furthermore.. there are Dutch people missing in America as well.. but do we make such a fuss? 

  

Doesn't the American Constitution include the phrase: "innocent until proven guilty" .. I thought all you Americans were so in favour of your constitution.. please be a little less hypocritical thank you. 

  

And for the quote I used for my comment.. Julie and Jim, please watch your so *competent government* in New Orleans.. 

  

Luckily you Americans still know the virtue of compassion *oil oil oil oil* 

  

Sorry for the sarcastic tone I used but naive people like you make me sick 

  

Best regards from Zoetermeer (5 murders without American Media Attention this year), The Netherlands 

  

  

 
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