Topic : 03/29 Next Generation of Moochers

Not really.  If you are genuinely wanting to be on your own--if that is your ultimate intent, but you have legitimate setbacks, then no, you're not a moocher.   

However, you are in a position which you can fall under the pattern of one.  Just don't let that happen and be diligent in achieving your goals, okay? 

...then you're not a moocher.  If you are absolutely beyond your means, then you're not a moocher.   

Don't resent the term in fear of it applying to you if it truely doesn't apply to you.   

However, you should work towards autonomy whether it be with your parents, friends, other family, financial advisors, and social workers if that's what it takes. 

To use something that Dr. Phil has said every now and then: "That's enablement!" 

It is.  Seriously. 

There's a difference between helping someone and enabling them.   

Helping someone is providing assistance to them to achieve a positive goal when it's either beyond their means or if it just makes more sense to have help than to not have help. 

Enabling someone is providing assistance to maladaptive or self-destructive behavior--the most extreme being giving someone a bottle of pills or a gun to assist a suicide.   

Yes, I did read one of your responses, stating that he has an industrial injury and that insurance won't cover it.  In fact, I'll respond to this: 

Because his injury is so nebulous he isn't eligable for any disability assistance.  The best that I can do is get him through school so that he can support himself again.  That was a fairly hard sell  

I really find it interesting that prior to this injusry he was a good worker and had pride in his job.  Now each day is a struggle.  I understand what long-term injuries are like I have a spinal injury that has plagued me for 18 years.  I hurt nearly everyday but get up and keep going, nobody owes me a living I have to be willing to go get it.  Why doesn't he see it this way?  My mother did.  

It's easy to use any kind of setback, regardless of its degree, as an excuse, or to even feel sorry for yourself because of it.  I know it's easy for someone like me to say that since I've never had it happen (the closest thing to that was having a third-degree burn on my leg when I was nine years old from boiling water).   

In fact, when I was in grade school, I saw a little boy who was born with only one finger and a thumb on his right hand play Nintendo with his elbow!  I thought that was pretty ****ing amazing.  He didn't feel sorry for himself, saying "I can't play this game."  He did it anyway.   

Perhaps your brother is affected by your mother's passing to a point of halting his own life.  For that reason, he probably needs to talk to someone, like a counselor, about his feelings and to come up with ways to cope with this as well as get on his feet and stay in school (the very schooling that you're funding for him, at that).  He also needs to have a purpose, an ultimate goal, for his schooling.  Going to school for a purpose is a far more motivating force than going to school just to go to school.   

Let me get this straight. You have a daughter who has a mental illness, which you don't seem to know what it is since you didn't mention it, and you moved out of the house because of the way she lives her life. WOW! What a self-centered uncaring person you are. If your daughter does have a mental illness it's like any other illness and she needs your support as a mother.  

Your daughter coming back to live with you because she has a mental illness does not make her a moocher, it means she's looking for help, support, and guidance. Now, I'm not saying her being untidy is acceptable, this is probably something that needs to be addressed but, for a mother to leave her daughter when she is ill, I really don't know what to say....  

James    

Quote From: jen0203 

 I have to say I disagree with James on this I dont think just because your daughter has a mental illness that gives her the right to take over your house. Having a mental illness is not an excuse to drop out of college and decide that she isnt going to do anything but have your husband wait on her. I would tell her to get a job and get out!! 

This one's kinda touchy, so it's hard to take an affirmative stance here.   

If you don't know whether your daugher (or your 21 year old that you mentioned) has undisputed mental illnesses or arbitrary mental "issues" then you need to get them into counseling and get a formal diagnosis.  If you want to help them so badly, then break out the phone book and start calling around THE MOMENT you see this response.  They need individual counseling, and you all as a family need family counseling to learn how to cope with this because running away from the problem by moving out is not the answer (nor is your husband enabling your 24 year old the answer either--I understand why he does it--he doesn't want to hurt her feelings, provoking a reaction from her, but I think Dr. Phil mentioned at one time that doing so is selfish--he cares more about his own emotions than his daughter's well-being).
  

I moved back home at one time because I got laid off from a job.  However, I had some debt, which was caused by my own stupidity (not necessarily because of the layoff), and tried to save up money to pay off my own debts.  However, moving back out, and not learning from my mistakes the first time, I've driven myself to roughly $50,000 in debt!  Yep, this is just me.  Not me and a spouse.  Not me and children.  Just me!   

Some of my debt is legitimate: vehicle, student loans, mobile home.  Others is just plain stupidity: credit cards, bank account driven to negative balance and having a collection against me.  I do have adult ADD and as a result, poor impulse control, but that's no excuse.  What I'm doing is getting help for the ADD, poor impulse control, and I also filed for Chapter 13 bankruptcy.  Yes, bankruptcy sucks (I couldn't get a home with my cousin because of it and my resulting credit score), but I look at it this way: 

- Live with it the next 7-10 years (and make sure it doesn't happen again--after all, it is taxpayer dollars paying for bankruptcies) 

or 

- Live with my debt for the rest of my life, into marriage and children, and into grandchildren. 

Anyway, depending on how much debt they do have, I would suggest putting them through financial management courses and perhaps have them go through credit counseling.  If their debt is as massive as mine, bankruptcy might be the only practical way out (and will practically destroy their credit, but they did this to themselves--as Dr. Phil says: "you choose your actions, you choose your consequences"), but again, make sure they do get help for whatever compelled them to get into that much debt in the first place--otherwise, any kind of help you give them might end up becoming a form of enablement.   

Even bankruptcy might be difficult--they won't qualify for Chapter 7 if they don't have enough secured debt under the new laws, and the new laws actually REQUIRE them to go through an approved financial management course.   

What you probably need to do is ask yourself if this is EXACTLY where you want to be with your life.  

If so, great!  You need to communicate with your mother that you have chosen your path in life, that you are willing to accept ALL the positive AND ALL the negatives of it, that you are aware of the positives and negatives, and that you have the coping skills necessary for an adult to deal with this.   

If you can't say that in all honesty to your mother, then you may want to admit that to your mother.   

You also need to ask yourself which of these reasons weigh more: 

a) you moved out because you have a set path in your life that you need to pursue 

or 

b) you moved out in spite of your mother and sister 

If it's a), then good for you!  Just keep at it.  Actions speak louder than words.  Once you are in the midwifery program and you are happy with it, tell your mother about your successes.  If you are telling the entire story here on this message board, then it seems like your mother only has one yardstick to measure success by, and that's your sister.  Your mother needs to know that success has many faces to it (and failure does as well).   

If it's b), then you're doing this for ENTIRELY the wrong reasons.  Many people have moved out of home in spite of their family (my sister being one of them...she moved out at 12:00 midnight on her 18th birthday--although she's married to someone from the Air Force who supports her, perhaps to the point of enablement, she has no intention on going back to school or getting a job that is relevant to her potential).  I'm not necessarily saying taking up your mom on her offer is the answer, but perhaps it's an option if you both consider having a mediator or counselor present to discuss each others issues.   If the center of the issues revolve around your sister, then maybe she needs to be present as well.   

...and don't alienate people that have not been down that road either.  That's elitism and that solves nothing. 

I've actually taken Lexapro for depression, but it really didn't help.  The reason it didn't help was that I actually have ADD, not really depression, although I had depression-like symptoms (including suicide ideations when I was a teenager) because they were actually a reaction to my "failures" resulting from ADD.   

...that would be an abuse of his theraputical position, and could cause some legal issues.   

I, myself, wouldn't have a problem with Dr. Phil redirecting people to their faith, but again, that would be biased, and therapy needs to be from a neutral point of view. 

I lived in a one-bedroom apartment at one time for $325/month.  It wasn't a **** hole, either.  It was actually pretty nice.   

I think it really depends on your area.  It sounds like you might need to move, but then again, you almost have to look for a steady job and a place to live simultaneously, and your fall-back plan (your family) would be too far away.   

I don't think faulting one entity is the solution here. 

Parents do share some of the blame for enabling their children.  Often they do so for different reasons: 

1) They suffered physically, mentally, and/or emotionally themselves, and don't want their children to do the same.  However, the enablement turns that into a self-fulling prophecy: the parents end up CAUSING the suffering that they're trying to prevent.  Spoiling can actually be a form of neglect.   

2) They're so kind that they want to be their children's "friend."  In doing so, they enforce that child-like behavior is okay for life.   

3) They feel too guilty about punishing their children for doing things that are wrong that they decide not to punish them at all, or the punishment ends up being too light. 

Children, of course, have blame as well because they are human--they can choose their own paths in life.  You choose your actions, you choose your consequences.