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Topic : 06/26 Twisted Love

Number of Replies: 2037
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Created on : Friday, January 27, 2006, 02:41:03 pm
Author : DrPhilBoard1

(Original Air Date: 02/02/06) Charles says he has exhausted his relationship with his wife of 19 years, and he's ready to try an alternative lifestyle. Instead of getting a divorce, Charles wants to explore polyfidelity -- a relationship where he is shared between his wife and his mistress. The mistress says she'll give it a try, but his wife, Tracy, says the thought makes her sick. Can Charles convince his wife to share him for the sake of their marriage? And what does Dr. Phil think? Share your thoughts, join the discussion.

 

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January 31, 2006, 2:47 pm CST

02/02 Twisted Love

Quote From: judyblue22

I wish Dr Phil wouldn't present these issues in such a sensational fashion.  There are LOTS of couples who have chosen to have a non monogamous marriage and many of them are quite responsible and sensible.  It is successful with good communication and very committed people. 

  

Polyamoury isn't dirty or slutty.  Polyamory ISN'T cheating.  It is a choice that BOTH a husband and wife make.  If one party is sneaking around or is forcing the choice on the other spouse, it really can't be considered polyamory or polyfidelity just as a "shotgun" wedding ceremony isn't a valid marriage.  Consent must be honestly and freely given. 

  

When my husband and I met, we were in our teens.  We knew that we wanted to spend our lives together but neither one of us wanted to have our relationship become a prison. We've been married 22 years so far without any big problems.  We have never separated, never needed marriage counselling and never needed to take antidepressants.  We discuss our desires and needs openly and we both want each other's happiness first and we are both willing to make the sacrifices necessary to get there. Sometimes, that has meant including another person-smile-they weren't all female. 

  

We do not have an open marriage nor are we polyamorous right now because we just needed that at this point in our lives because of health, kids and career issues.  It may last forever or we may make changes. 

How do you handle jealousy?  It is a human experience that we all feel.  I understand that they say there is a difference between sex and marriage, but I guess I am just not that with it.  My husband's arms are meant to hold me, not another woman.  His kisses and his gazes should be a gift for me, not shared with someone who doesn't care for him, raise his children, or clean up his dirty underwear!  I want to do all I can for his happiness and I understand that they may mean sacrificies along the way, but I am struggling with the idea to just say "Go ahead, find another woman."  Don't you worry that he will fall in love with her too?  Can you really happily share your husband with another woman? 
 
January 31, 2006, 4:19 pm CST

02/02 Twisted Love

Quote From: rebeccamo

How do you handle jealousy?  It is a human experience that we all feel.  I understand that they say there is a difference between sex and marriage, but I guess I am just not that with it.  My husband's arms are meant to hold me, not another woman.  His kisses and his gazes should be a gift for me, not shared with someone who doesn't care for him, raise his children, or clean up his dirty underwear!  I want to do all I can for his happiness and I understand that they may mean sacrificies along the way, but I am struggling with the idea to just say "Go ahead, find another woman."  Don't you worry that he will fall in love with her too?  Can you really happily share your husband with another woman? 
The best page I've seen written about jealous and polyamory is here:

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyjealousy.html
 
January 31, 2006, 6:08 pm CST

Get out!

Quote From: rebeccamo

My husband has hinted around that he would like to do something similar.  He doesn't want to keep a mistress, but would rather be allowed to have an affair so that he can experience the things he would really like to do that I won't do for him.  He feels that he if gets them out of his system things will be fine.  He cannot guarantee me that he wouldn't want to keep doing it though.  He swears that if I am not o.k. with it he won't do it, but then he keeps pressuring me to do things that I am just not comfortable with or desire to do.  We have been married along time and I know that I have to help keeps things lively and fresh, but I either do what he wants or allow him to go somewhere else to get it.  What choice do I have?  I am afraid one day he will just grow tired of the same old routine and leave.  His other suggestion is for us to go to a swingers club and pick up another woman.  He says it isn't cheating if we're doing it together.  I asked if he would really want to kiss and have sex with another woman and his answer was yes.  Outside of this we have a happy and wonderful marriage.  He is a great father, wonderful provider and showers me with attention.  He just claims to have such a high sex drive that he needs more than what I am currently offering.  Any suggestions?
My sister was in a similar situation -  no matter what she did it wasn't enough, even ended up swinging with the jerk. After 25 years of sticking by her man, she finally woke up and got a divorce!  Her family wondered what took her so long! No one needs to put up with that type of crap!  When guys start talking about getting another woman involved...sweetheart, it's time to move on and cut your loses!!!
 
January 31, 2006, 7:02 pm CST

*LOL*

Quote From: sheltie2

My sister was in a similar situation -  no matter what she did it wasn't enough, even ended up swinging with the jerk. After 25 years of sticking by her man, she finally woke up and got a divorce!  Her family wondered what took her so long! No one needs to put up with that type of crap!  When guys start talking about getting another woman involved...sweetheart, it's time to move on and cut your loses!!!
Honey ... what if it's the WIFE that suggests she'd like to add to the home and bedroom? Not with another man but rather another woman? Like me for instance. My mate and I have one other person in our home, she's Our friend, Our lover, Our confidant, Our helpmate and Our partner. We are in a CLOSED Triad. We don't swing, we don't share and now my 15 year old has another perspective. Do a little research before you throw flames. The Poly community is bigger than you think. It is not based on lies, it is not based on cheating. A person cannot cheat if he/she is doing so with the blessing and permission of their spouse. By the same token ... without that ... then, yes ... you're cheating. If you both do not embrace a Poly life/lovestyle ... then your mono and cheating. Your sister's situation was unfortunate, but swinging involves sex with virtual strangers or people you have no love ties to ... if she did that for so long ... something else was going on. Something you may never know, but something.
 
January 31, 2006, 7:23 pm CST

Judgements

Lots of replies to this topic proclaim "polyfidelity" as "sick" and other such derogatory terms.  What makes this particular situation "twisted" I suppose is the order in which these discussions are happening. 

  

For this set of relationships to be "poly", Charles perhaps would have fared better to discuss his desire to shift the sexual exclusivity aspect of his marriage commitment with his partner before bringing someone new into the relationship. 

  

Unfortunately, people like Charles (who may very well be capable of a poly relationship- or may not) have few role models or encouragement when setting out in relationships.  

  

With serial monogamy on the rise, one must consider the OPTION for CONSENTING people to explore poly-relationships.  In a polyamourous relationship, one's love for a second (or third, or...) person does not negate the love for other partner(s).  People in poly relationships are strting from a place of trust and security with one another.  They are happy when their partner is enjoying a Loving relationship, and do not need to be the  sole source of their partner's joy. 

  

  

 
January 31, 2006, 7:26 pm CST

(S)He may fall in love with...

Quote From: nity77

The best page I've seen written about jealous and polyamory is here:

http://www.xeromag.com/fvpolyjealousy.html
Just as we as mommas are expected to be able to love multiple children without the love for one interfering with tor diminishing th elove of another is it not possible that we can share romantic/ soul love with multiple partners (sexual or otherwise)?
 
January 31, 2006, 8:03 pm CST

custody

I saw on the web about grandparents that got custody of their grandchildren because of this lifestyle. It would be an interesting study of the children of these relationships - how much secrecy is necessary from the children or other relatives or the schools. also, psychologically is this healthy to expose your kids to this? I still tend to think the nuclear family is for the protection of the kids and the mother and father. Kids have enough problems growing up without this but live and let live as long as it doesn't harm someone else in your family.
 
January 31, 2006, 8:46 pm CST

polyamory-loving more

 I would like to share my story.. I've been married almost 20 years... to an amazing man I might add.  I have always had a "community" around me so to say.  Poly doesn't necessarily mean being physically intimate with everyone in your life/circle.  It means loving someone enough to not need ownership.  It means absolute honesty.  It means so many things.  It's not just about sex.  It's about having amazing relationships without the constraints of hiding who you are and what you feel.  How many people are guilty of feeling emotions and hiding them.. Imagine being loved so much and having absolute trust in someone to know in your heart  that he/she will not hide who they are from you.  Traditional marriage is so tightly bound by ownership. In our situation my SO and I developed this friendship into love over many years.  This has never been fueled by sex.   We are also sharing our lives with my SO.  He is an amazing man, raising kids, works a normal job, owns a home very close to ours and we share our lives/families with one another.  Both men are great friends and one day we will reside in one home.   My husband and I have never been closer and communication never more clear.  Please do your own research and make an intelligent decision on what you really find and read before you judge anyone.  Once I discovered that this is a huge lifestyle choice things finally made sense to me! 
 
February 1, 2006, 8:41 am CST

02/02 Twisted Love

Quote From: paganmamma

Lots of replies to this topic proclaim "polyfidelity" as "sick" and other such derogatory terms.  What makes this particular situation "twisted" I suppose is the order in which these discussions are happening. 

  

For this set of relationships to be "poly", Charles perhaps would have fared better to discuss his desire to shift the sexual exclusivity aspect of his marriage commitment with his partner before bringing someone new into the relationship. 

  

Unfortunately, people like Charles (who may very well be capable of a poly relationship- or may not) have few role models or encouragement when setting out in relationships.  

  

With serial monogamy on the rise, one must consider the OPTION for CONSENTING people to explore poly-relationships.  In a polyamourous relationship, one's love for a second (or third, or...) person does not negate the love for other partner(s).  People in poly relationships are strting from a place of trust and security with one another.  They are happy when their partner is enjoying a Loving relationship, and do not need to be the  sole source of their partner's joy. 

  

  

I see that you have an open mind, which is good.  I don't think people have any right to judge anyone.  Polyfidelity is not for me, but I say that if it's really what these people want, then who are we to make assumptions?  Now, if one partner does have a problem and is feeling unloved or like their feelings do not matter, then there is cause for conflict.  But, as long as both partners feel that this is best for them, then by all means, have at it.  This world is full of lots of different people with different ways of living.   

  

P.S.  I like your user name "paganmamma". 

 
February 1, 2006, 8:50 am CST

02/02 Twisted Love

Quote From: rebeccamo

How do you handle jealousy?  It is a human experience that we all feel.  I understand that they say there is a difference between sex and marriage, but I guess I am just not that with it.  My husband's arms are meant to hold me, not another woman.  His kisses and his gazes should be a gift for me, not shared with someone who doesn't care for him, raise his children, or clean up his dirty underwear!  I want to do all I can for his happiness and I understand that they may mean sacrificies along the way, but I am struggling with the idea to just say "Go ahead, find another woman."  Don't you worry that he will fall in love with her too?  Can you really happily share your husband with another woman? 

It can't be accomplished without a very firm commitment.  I met my husband in high school and we are now pushing 50. Our relationship is very stable.  No matter what happens, my husband and I know we will solve any problems and stay together.  Once you have that confidence, it is easier to live without fear. It is very liberating. 

  

Dealing with jealousy is important because it is a sign of an instability. The first step for handling jealousy is figuring out exactly what you are feeling: 

  • possessiveness: he is MINE
  • insecurity:  he might leave me or stop loving me
  • envy: I wish he would do that with me
  • envy: I wish I could do what he is doing
  • self esteem issues: she is prettier than me
  • loss:  I miss my partner/I need more of his time

Each of those feelings is a symptom of a different issue and once you know what you are feeling, it is easier to negotiate a solution.  The most difficult problem we had when we were not exclusive was HIS jealousy, not mine.  He was jealous about the simplicity and ease of my friendships-he wanted to have what I had.  That was difficult to solve because we found that men were just more willing to be in that kind of relationship than women. I would be pursued and he wasn't. The way we dealt with that was by me supporting his relationship as much as I could.  When he was going to spend a weekend with his partner, I would make sure the house was sparkling. I would arrange flowers and have nice foods prepared and ready for them. I tried to make sure that even though I wasn't there, she felt welcomed and wanted by me. 

  

When he had a new love interest and was goofy over her, I did feel a sense of envy.  I wanted him to feel that way about me. It was a sign that we needed to focus on our relationship more. 

  

We feel that, if we involved someone else with us, that we have the responsibility to ensure that the other(s) were emotionally safe with us.  We had to have the time and energy to commit to the relationship or we didn't engage in it.  We found, once we had our second child, that we just didn't have the time or energy for outside relationships so we chose to be exclusive.  I miss some things about it and I treasure some things about what we have now. ~Smile~ its all good. 

 
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