Messages By: xplay25

I am not a parent.  However,  I have had close relationships with my five neices and nephews since their births.  I have lived with them at times,  and definitely have the inside scoop on the inner workings of a typical western cultured family.  And,  from what I've observed,  it isn't always happy,  and it isn't always sad.  It's taking the good with the bad.  But I believe that the way one disciplines their child is very important to the family unit. 

Spanking has been passed down through three generations of my family,  that I am aware of.  Probably more.  Has it worked?  Never.  The routine is always relative: child is upset because parent wouldn't let him or her watch this show,  or get this thing,  so parent spanks in order to diffuse the situation for immediate results(instead of long lasting).  Now,  this either (A) works immediately based on sheer fear,  or (B),  child screams louder and sticks to his or her guns,  throwing a tantrum,  and throwing inanimate objects.  They are deliberately challenging authority,  which has never gone well in my family.  Mother or father snap,  spank again,  put the kid in their room with no dessert.  What has this solved?  Nothing.  Because the valuable lesson is non existant.  In my experience,  it only causes chaos.

Now,  in no way am I,  or would I claim that spanking doesn't work in it's own ways,  especially since every kid is different and you have to tailor punishment to each specific child.  Sometimes spanking a child works,  and in theory,  this is because they are scared.  But in their mind,  they are a hot volcano of anger and confusion.  The psychology of a child is very complex,  they are at a time in their life,  where a lot of things don't make sense,  and they have to make sense of everything they see.  And sometimes you can send a scrambled message.  By that I mean:

1.  Child cannot comprehend situation based off of it's very limited logic base,  therefore wondering why there is violence being inflicted upon them,  yet their parents love them.  They cannot make sense of this. 

2.  Parent genuinely loves their child,  and is only attempting to love them in the way they were taught,  and many times that is spanking.  They think that they are doing something good,  and again,  that's really dependant on your viewpoint,  it's just subjective.  But the fact remains the same,  that many times this creates an unbalanced child.  This is something I have had the privelige of observing personally.

3.  Child is left,  in many cases deprived of sufficient punishment,  and parent is confused and worn out because they only know what they were taught by their parents.  And maybe that just won't work on this particular kid. 

4.  Sleepless nights,  conflicts,  and confusion ensue.

Do I think spanking is the answer to some situations?  I don't know,  but I don't really think so.  I think there are alternatives,  even with the variation in personalities,  spanking doesn't have to be an option.  But some choose to discipline their children that way,  and that is their lawful right.  I don't agree with spanking,  I think it is cruelty done by those who do not wish cruelty upon their children.  You may mean something in a contrary way,  but it doesn't change the action.  I think society is the overall victim.  I think we are victims of ourselves in many a sense.  We don't know how to handle every situation,  we aren't infallible,  so we just do what we know.  And most folks know spanking.  They may not consider all methods,  like reverse psychology,  and bartering. 

In my personal opinion,  the less conflict in the home,  the better.  No screaming or spanking,  that is the best policy,  I believe.  Because if you scream and hit,  your kids will likely think that's okay.  I've witnessed it a million times.  They don't have the evolved reasoning that they would need to understand the situation.  How are they supposed to understand that when mommy and daddy hit,  it is out of love and best interest,  but when the kids hit other kids,  animals,  or even adults,  it is bad.  How would a four year old piece that together?  I don't know your four year olds,  or your six year olds,  but this has been my experience,  and my accumulated understanding.

You have a right to spank your children,  unless it's illegal in your state or province,  what have you.  I don't know your kid,  maybe it works for you.  But from what I've observed,  it's never been and will never be the answer for the kids I know.  That's just my perspective,  I don't consider it a law or try and impose it on others.  It can be a trivial matter indeed,  honestly I think today's society isn't fully equipped to handle life as it is,  having to raise children,  while beautiful in it's own way,  must be a very heavy load.  And I sympathize with all parents,  I know how it can wear you out. 

I am not an expert on this subject,  but I don't think the hurt comes simply from the pornography.  I think it comes from other things,  maybe that he or she isn't being satisfied in the relationship.  Maybe he or she feels inadequate and is thus forth passed aside for the night,  in favor of a pay site.  I could see that cutting someone pretty deep.  The pornography itself probably isn't the big picture,  because a lot of people actually enjoy that sort of material together.  I think it's not being included!  I think that's the problem,  more times than not!  And that's just my logic,  I haven't been in a relationship,  but this is just my sense.

As far as pornography in general goes,   you know it is a constant struggle for a lot of people.  Pornography is addicting.  And from my viewpoint,  it is enslaving.  It isn't liberating at all.  Some frown upon pornography,  some don't.  Being a Christian,  I frown upon pornography.  However,  I do not treat anyone poorly for their lifestyle choices.  Persecution never helped anyone,  and it most certainly isn't going to change anyone's stance on pornography!  I don't use my time on such things,  what you do in the privacy of your home is your own business. 

It counts in accordance to it's own merit.  It isn't useless experience,  it's certainly been good enough to give me an understanding of what goes on,  and what has worked for the people that I know.  Eight years of watching children grow,  taking care of them,  and watching how they interact with their parents,  is definitely very good experience.  It isn't quite the same,  but it's good enough to make an educated judgment of the people in my life.

Also,  the Bible is not against spanking,  I think I saw a post saying that. 

I certainly think those without God's protection could be tormented by demons,  and one could interpret this as a curse.  I believe that demons are very real,  and very much around us today.  And I assume they have all sorts of crafty ways in which to torment man.  So you may have demonic influence hanging over you.  For this I have two very fundamental pieces advice:

Do not buy anything from the home of a person who you do not know. 

Do not go to fortune tellers,  psychics,  or anyone that dabbles in the Occult in general.

And, a woman claims an exorcism, performed by her father 26 years ago, put demons inside of her.  Share your thoughts.

  

I would not doubt that demonic influence was involved.  However,  this man's history and the methods he used would need examining before I could speculate on what this could have been.

 

  

 

I was just diagnosed with MS in early October 2005

Firstly,  Pandas,  I am very sorry for your hardship.  Secondly,   I think it would be a great benefit to you,  if you're not already doing these things,  to try: eliminating all artificial sweeteners and monosodium glutamate.  This is imparative. 

When I am trying to lose weight,  I always do Fit For Life.  This of course,  is less of a temporary diet plan and more of a life strategy.  It is the most healthy thing I've ever done for my body,  and when utilizing it's guidelines responsibly,  you can lose a massive amount of weight.  Now,  I will admit,  I did abuse the protein/fat allowances(anyone on Atkins knows what I'm talking about),  and that is why it took two years for me to lose sixty pounds.  But in theory,  I could have lost one hundred and twenty,  easily!  If I had of excersized three times a week,  ate less,  drank more water,  and cut back on flesh products,  I could have been healthier than I was.  However,  there are always could have's and would have's,  the point is that you made drastic changes for you,  for your health.  Always do it for you,  not for anyone else.  And let me tell you folks,  when there is a will,  there is a way!  Your willpower is imparative to your success as a dieter.  My day to day life of what I believe to be proper food combining(tested and approved in my own body,  thanks Harvey,  Marilyn) and drinking water,  made a profound difference on my health.  

However,  two years,  and I threw it all away.  I gained it all back,  and probably a bit more.  Not because of the way I was eating,  I was more than content with that,  as an individual,  but,  because I decided to give in to indulgence.  Simple as that.  I blame myself for that,  I accept that,  and now I'm about to change things forever.  This time,  excersize and proper portion control will be fundamental.  I've been highly successful in the past,  and I can do it again! 

My advice is,  whatever your method,  just keep going.  Just know that if you quit now,  six months down the road you might be thinking,  "why?!  Why did I let this happen?!"  That's what I'm thinking now,  my friends.  I've learned my lesson,  thoroughly.  I cannot afford to quit again.  I am 17 years old,  and probably 260lbs or more!  I don't look at scales,  they torment me,  so I just stay away from those.  They aren't good for me,  I just go by the differences I see from day to day,  instead of obsessing over specifc numbers.  That can break you faith,  folks.  That can break your willpower faster you'd believe,  if you haven't yet experienced it.

After reading what you've had to say,  I have some questions for you.  As far as Proverbs goes,  the Rod isn't necessarily a literal Rod,  we agree on that fact.  But.......

1.  Have you proven to me that the term doesn't encompass physical punishment?  

2.  When it says "beat",  or "beateth",  if you prefer,  that seems to tell us something.  Why does it put "Rod" and "beat" in the same sentence? 

The reason I ask you is because what you gave me was well written,  but was in a format that was hard to read.  So I honestly did read the whole thing,  but it needs to be summed up so I can keep it all in my head!  Heh,  so when you have time,  if you can,  just sum up your main points for me.  Put the major facts on the table for me,  in much less wording,  and differientiate between fact and interpretation. 

You see,  in no way am I biased on the issue,  I am very willing to see other arguments.  As you probably know,  I'm not dead set against spanking,  nor am I a big proponent of the practice.  So these are the easiest people to discuss it with,  obviously. 

Thanks,  Amy.

 Now then, after reading the "proper" definition.....it is now up to you to take the verse as you see fit!   As we all know, you can give 10 people the same exact bible and get 10 different interpretations on it.  
 

 
Right.  You can get many interpertations.  I believe my interpretation is accurate,  and the Bible is not against spanking children. 

 

For the record, what I posted wasn't in my own words.  I just so happen to agree with it, so therefore I posted it!  
 

So I gathered.  And again,  I thought it kind of you to think of it. 

I am not quite sure as to why you would want me to "sum it up".......that is up to you to "sum it up" however you want.  I put it out there for you to read....how you "sum it up" is up to you!   

What I mean by "sum it up" is give me a formatted and straightforward summation.  That way,  it being very early in the morning at the time,  I could hopefully piece it all together a whole lot easier.  I had figured you were on at that time.  I couldn't piece your source's quote together very easily,  and I was attempting to maybe get something a bit more condensed. 
 

Quoting the bible is one thing, but understanding it is another!  We can all quote anything we want, but understanding what we quoted and making sense of it is another thing!  

Oh I know a lot about this.  I'm sure we've both seen many who don't,  however,  and therefore it is our place to show them where they may be right or wrong,  if we can.

After reading your profile, and I am assuming you are the person mentioned in the profile, you hardly qualify as an expert in raising children, being that you are a child yourself.  17 years of age, living at home with Mom and Dad.  Do you have children?  I truly hope you don't at such a young age.....but I am going to take a stab at it and say I dont think that you do.  You appear to be a very intelligent person, and I am sure your interest in this matter is genuine.  However, this just so happens to be one of those topics that if you haven't "experienced" it, being a parent, then your OPINION isn't taken very seriously....even though I am sure you have good intentions.  

Not entirely directed at you,  but there are some things I'd like to say related to this subject.

Do I qualify as an expert?  Well that's entirely subjective.  Personally I don't believe I am.  However,  my experiences and what I've learned have been instrumental in understanding many things,  and whether someone on an internet forum thinks I'm an expert or not is up to them.  I certainly don't profess that I'm an expert in child raising.  That doesn't necessarily nullify what I'm saying.  I mean I don't have any credentials or any children of my own.  I've learned a lot of things from my mother,  however,  she raised seven children,  so she's a good source,  isn't she?  She happens to have a high opinion of me in this respect.  And that's her opinion,  but it is an educated one.  She educated me,  and I observed the environment I happened to grow up in. 
 

 

Experience is important,  and no one here knows my specific experiences.  Medical students observe,  and then become doctors.  They learn from that experience.  That's what I have done,  and am doing.  Some,  not all,  without knowing one,  would judge them fundamentally on their age,  which is wrong in my opinion.  I mean I might have a neighbor that is fourty,  but hasn't done or seen much of anything in his life,  maybe he did less than me?  Maybe a guy just as old as he,  did more than me!  Had experienced and learned more than me.  It's entirely up to each individual,  so one wouldn't be informed to judge someone on their age alone.  That's not ethical. 
 

 

Do I have to have children to know what it is like to be a parent?  Partly,  yes.  In no way would I say I know what it's like to be entirely responsible for kid,  I've never supported a child.  I haven't shared a marriage with kids,  and had to decide as a team how to raise a child in certain ways.  I know it's just different.  But that doesn't nullify any other knowledge I may have on this subject.  I don't claim to be a parent,  but I do claim some knowledge of child raising.  Not all knowledge,  but you learn from other people's experiences to some extent,  by observation.  I've taken care of children,  I couldn't count the hours,  I actually lived with my sister at one point.  I know general behaviour,  and I know my nieces and nephews very well.  I know them better than any parent in this forum.  So I can just go by what I've learned in my life.  But people are going to judge you however they want. 
 

 

Generally speaking,  don't look at my age as much as my words,  because you don't really know me as a person,  and likewise,  I do not know you.  So please extend me that courtesy. 

There is no dad involved,  just another fact 100% of the folks on these forums don't know about me or the people I know,  my father died of a heart attack eight years ago. 
 

In reality,  you are absolutely right that many won't take my viewpoint for anything,  no matter what it actually says,  and that's their right.  Does that mean I think they are right?  Not at all,  but that's the beauty of opinion.  Whether it offends or harmonizes,  it's for everyone. 

 

Again, take what I quoted in my prior post and sum it up the best you can.......to be honest with you, how can you sum something up that is so deep and hard to understand to begin with..........it is a lengthy topic that takes a bit more than "ABC" comments! 
 

Well,  I respect your opinion on that.  I do think that it could have been put together differently,  but I know you quoted it,  so I understand.  So no worries.  And again I thank you for presenting me with the information.  I did my best to decipher what I could from it.
 

 

PS....are you allowed to access Dr Phil's website from Highschool?  
 

 

I don't go to high school.  Actually homeschooling has always been a more viable option to me.  I don't exactly have any faith in the public education system.  And educaters usually scoff at that,  but that's my firm belief. 

 

I thank you for the kind words.  And I totally see where you are coming from on the spanking issue. In fact I really think it's unpleasant,  and I think Dr. Phil has a pretty solid viewpoint,  I've only really observed negative things coming from spanking.  Of course,  I just speak from the experience of my family,  and even me!  Although I think the general view of spanking is always thought of with anger and what not.  I don't know,  maybe I'm wrong on that.  It just seems to me that generally the image of anger and even desperation goes hand in hand with today's society and how it administers spanking.  Don't you think so,  though,  that most parents spank in anger?  I don't know,  I'm sure there are a lot of folks that will testify to the contrary.  Maybe they don't punish out of anger and frustration.  But what I've observed has without fail,  always been in anger.  That and what I see on television(not acting). 

When you say you don't think they are child abusers,  I agree,  I never got that from the posts of yours that I read.  I read most of this thread before posting originally,  so I had an idea of the thread regulars' viewpoints.  I agree with anyone that says spanking isn't necessarily the best option.  I won't spank my kids,  if I have any.  While I have softened in my viewpoint(I used to be strongly opposed),  I still don't like the idea of striking my kid.  I guess I'm not made for that stuff.  I don't know if that's common among guys,  but that's how I am at this point in my life.  Your best evidence is what you see I guess,  so maybe spanking won't work for my kids.  I certainly wouldn't use it,  just because that wouldn't be an inclination of mine.  Maybe I have unresolved abuse issues.


It is ever so obvious that you are a very mature young lady and are very articulate.............I give props to you for that straight off.....I am 20 years older than you and don't have vocabulary that you have......especially at your age.   

Thank you.  I'm actually a guy,  my name is Brandon.  And may I say that you post very well.  And it's good to see that you are homeschooling your 13 year old,  school is a dangerous place for  Christians(if my assumption is correct,  and you are a Christian family).  I always felt like the school yard was an unncessary moral stresser.  Although it did build conviction in myself for the time I was there.

MY STORY: I do wonder if I should visit the doctor to check for arthritis.  I am always in a constant state of pain.  Aching,  sharp pangs,  not only due to my weight,  but how my left leg grew.  I have an extremely rare bone disorder,  I actually don't know if there's anyone else out there with this,  but my left leg didn't grow properly. 

• Left leg is bowed out.
• 1.5 inches shorter than right leg.
• Caused by abnormal growth in bone plate.
• No definitive diagnosis.

I got tired of trying to find real answers,  and decided to live with it.  The pain is getting worse,  everyday I worry that my right leg will become this way aswell,  which would lead me to a likely conclusion: rare bone disease.  There is far too much weight for my legs to handle,  which is definitely something I have an answer to.  I need to make some big changes,  and although I probably can't fix it(without dangerous surgery),  I will be thankful if it doesn't snap.  Because if I break that leg,  in theory,  the doctors could be put in a complicated situation,  because it is not a normal leg.  I can't work,  walking around in stores is enough to wear out my leg.  And as you can imagine,  my hips,  lower back,  neck,  and everything else is in a constant state of pain,  because I can't hold myself up properly.  There is no dramatization here,  it is all real.  I don't take any drugs,  and I'm better off because of it.