Messages By: tulseyjoe

Dack Rambo was bisexual. I saw him on a show hosted by Pat Boone and Boone tried to put words into his mouth. Rambo's sexual orientation did not change after he became a Christian. I found out about his not being exclusively heterosexual when he went cruising for same-gender sexual activity in a large Park in the San Fernando Valley of Los Angeles.  

On Boone's show, he refused to say negative things about gays. 

There is absolutely no scripture in the Old Testament nor the New Testament which literally mentions what we in modern times would consider to be sexual activity by those who are exclusively homosexual. In the 3 chapters of the Bible which literally mention same-gender sexual activity, the situation is the pagan worship of fertility gods and/or goddesses by heterosexuals who have gone to a pagan temple or other place of worship to make a sacrifice of male "seed" to the false gods to insure more human offspring by those heterosexuals in relationship with women.  

One must read Leviticus chapters 18 through 20 in complete context where the Israelites are told not to follow the cultural/religious practices of the Canaanites which includes the worship of Asherah, aka Astarte, the Canaanite fertility goddess, and her male co-hort, Ba'al, aka Milcom or Molech (both words mean "king").  A male holy (Kodesh) person serving the goddess or god in that situation was called a "sodomite" elsewhere in the bible. "Kodesh" the word mistranslated as "sodomite" (in other Bible books) is literally a "holy" (person, place, or thing) in the Hebrew Language. 

Often this holy person representing the goddess Asherah would dress up in female drag and the male (definitely hetersosexual) would have sex with the male holy person and in the worshipper's mind and spirit, it was as if he was having sex with the goddess herself and not with a male at all.  

The only other place in the Bible where same-gender sexual activity is condemned is in Romans Chapter 1, In that chapter, the context where that takes place is also in a pagan fertility temple.  

To some ignorant right-wing Bible-thumpers, there is only one sin in that chapter; but, the real truth is that at the end of the chapter there is a whole list of other sins which those "thumpers" are guilty of  themselves. But, they act like those don't exist.  

Added note here: I did graduate work in theology at Oral Roberts University in the latter 1970s. The Roberts family and the university is in denial of the fact that Oral and Evelyn Roberts' first born son, Ronald Oral Roberts, left the closet after I went to ORU and he openly admitted to several people I knew that he was gay. Troy Perry, founder of the MCC denomination, wrote about Ronald in one of his books. A former local MCC pastor here in Tulsa told me that Ron and she were friends and that he definitely was gay. 

I wondered when Dr. Phil would be getting around to this subject. I have been following the history and activities of Exodus International since it began in an Assembly of God in Anaheim, CA in the latter 1970s. More than a dozen years later, one of the co-founders of the group, originally just called "Exodus," left the proverbial closet and admitted that nobody's sexual orientation had been changed in the organization's programs and not even God had changed anyone's sexual orientation from being exclusively homosexual to being exclusively heterosexual.  

If you ask a so-called "ex-gay" about his physiological (that's down below the belt behind the public bone area where they happen) sexual attraction sensations which proved he was homosexual before he "became and ex-gay" and if those same sensations still happen directed at a member of the same sex close by and he says they do, he is still a homosexual. If his sexual orientation was really changed by God, Jesus, and/or the Holy Spirit, he would no longer experience same-gender physiological sexual attractions.  

I am sort of an ex-ex-gay. While I did not go through and Exodus program, I still tried to do things their way and I even had people agree in prayer with me that God would change my sexual orientation. God answered their other prayers for me; so, I know that it was not a lack of faith on their part and He answered my prayers for them. So, don't say I did not believe God would not change my sexual orientation from exclusively homosexual to exclusively heterosexual. I believe that with God everything is possible; but, not everything with him is probable.  

I stopped being in denial of my homosexuality in 1984 and God found a way to get me out of the closet. How He did that is a story in itself and how He outed me to myself in personal conversation with Him is part of the story of my self-acceptance and knowing that I am still a Believer in Jesus the Christ. I am almost 63 and I got saved at 8 years old.  

Why don't you people who read English Only Bibles learn how to read the Bible in its correct spiritual and historical context? I already posted about the same-gender sexual activity which is condemned in the Bible is heterosexual men having sexual intercourse with a pagan holy person in service to a fertility god. And . . . , that "holy" person is dressed up in clothes to represent a female goddess. The King James Version Bible translators called a male holy person, a "kodesh," in service to the Canaanite goddess Asherah a "sodomite." But, those same translators called a female holy person, a "kodeshah," serving that same goddess a whore or prostitute. Go figure. When "kodesh" or "kodeshah" are used in the Hebrew Language Bible texts and the situation has no connection with non-Jewish religion, they are called "saints." 

Oh, in Romans chapter One, the women engaged in sexual activity in that chapter are actually pagan female holy persons (aka "votaries") who strap on sexual devices to have anal sexual activity with the heterosexually married male worshipper. In that case, it is a man having sex with a woman as though the woman is a male and the act of anal sex is supposed to give the male worshipper more ability to have more children. There are no "lesbians" in that chapter.  

Some people think that the apostle, Paul, condemned homosexuals. But, he did not and the Greek word "arsenokoitai," used by him in Corinthians and Timothy was NEVER used by any other person before Paul nor by anyone after Paul's use of the Greek word either. No one, absolutely nobody, knows what it literally means. Since it ends with the suffix 'ai," that means it is a plural feminine noun, aka they are females. And since "arseno" supposedly means male and "koit" is Greek for "bed," an interpretation of that is females who take males to bed, or more literally "female male-bedders."  

One has absolutely no control over one's sexual orientation. There is no Scripture in the original Hebrew or Greek texts of the Bible that even implies that God, aka YHWH, even hates homosexuals having sex at any time. Jesus NEVER said one thing about homosexuals nor their sexual activity.  

Homosexuals might be able to not have sexual activity before marriage if all of the States in the USA gave equal rights, including civil marriage rights, to those who are exclusively homosexual, just like those states give the right to heterosexuals and even bisexuals to have heterosexual, aka opposite-gender, marriages.  

Oh, I took "Freshman Orientation 101" when I was a 1st Semester Freshman in college in 1961. A class used to orientate one to a particular institution or a job is not the same thing as to what is sexual orientation. One has to choose to go to college or university before one can even take such a class. 

Why do ignorant people confuse sexual orientation with sexual preference? Those who use the Bible out of context to condemn homosexuality and homosexuals don't even know the difference. "Sexual preference" has to do with what kind of sexual activity one likes the best and what type of individual to have that sex activity with. 

I have also observed that the misusers of the Bible also try to put homosexuality into the same category as addictions.  

While there is very little evidence of homosexual orientation on my mother's side of the family, there is plenty of it on my father's side of the family. Dad's father had a brother who was homosexual in his sexual orientation. Dad was exclusively heterosexual. But, I also think that one of his brothers was a homosexual who was heterosexually married. That Uncle never had any children, just like his and Dad's uncle didn't.  

Dad's other brother has a son who, for all intent and purpose, to borrow a phrase, is a bisexual. I know that because my older brother, although he later married a woman, had lots of sexual activity with that particular cousin during their teen and early adult years. My older brother even shared the same bed with him when he lived with them for a while.  

My older brother did get married; but, he never dated a girl nor woman until after he was 23 years old and was tricked into that marriage. He did have 3 sons and the older son was homosexually active all during his teen years. I really think that the next younger son is more homosexual than heterosexual and that is based on how he talked AND acted when I was around him. 

One of Dad's sisters had a grand-daughter who liked women more than she did men, according to what my mother told me after talking to his sister one time. 

A PhD psychologist here in Tulsa, Oklahoma, at the Indian Health Care Resource Center's Behavioral Health department, told me that he believes that more than one gene is involved in what decides one's sexual orientation. I tend to agree with him. 

I dated women while in high school and in adult life until I was past 35 years of age; but, while I loved as a friend the women I dated, I NEVER experienced a physiological sexual attraction directed toward them. That means we would never have been sexually compatible. For a male human being, he always experiences a physiological sexual attraction down-below-the-waist, behind-the-pubic-bone, in-the-area-of-the-prostate-organ, directed toward those nearby according to his sexual orientation.  

He does not even have to be thinking about sex with the person nor even be looking at the person to experience a physiological sexual attraction directed toward that specific person. Blind persons experience them.  

"Proof-texting" is the taking of a phrase, sentence, chapter, etc., of literature out of its original historical context to either support one's view or condemn others. According to the the author of the textbook which I had when I took Biblical Hermeneutics (aka Bible Interpretation), the KJV translators did a dis-service to the Bible by dividing its books up into chapters and verses. Because of that, English speaking readers, especially, take phrases, sentences, verses, and even chapters of the Bible completely out of their original contexts and misuse them. Oh, I took that course when I was a graduate student at Oral Roberts University in the 1970s working on a Master of Arts in Theological and Historical Studies (MATHS) Degree. I attended there for 5 semesters. I was in denial of my sexual orientation then. 

The word mistranslated as "prostitute" in the Living Bible is "kodesh" for males and "kodeshah" for females. The word "Kodesh" and its feminine spelling Kodeshah" do not mean prostitute at all.  

When Deuteronomy was written, there were no vowel points in the Hebrew text at all. Those were added by a group of Jews a long time after the birth of Jesus. When referring to a person, "kodesh" refers to anyone serving a god, either a pagan god or YHWH, aka Yahweh or Jehovah. What the author of Deuteronomy was referring to is that none of the Children of Israel should be serving the Canaanite gods as holy persons.  

In regard to what is in 1 Corinthians 6:9-13, and the word translated as "male prostitutes," which is "malakoi," that word means "soft" and Jesus used the very same word when referring to the kind of clothing which John the Baptist did not wear.  

And that other word, arsenokoitai, mistranslated as "homosexual offenders," was NEVER used by any other of the Bible's authors other than the Apostle Paul.  . . . AND according to experts in historical documents  and other Greek writings, NOBODY, and I mean Nobody! used the word except Paul himself.  

Do not call the same-gender sexual activity in Leviticus 18:22  and Leviticus 20:13 homosexual acts. Oh, it's true that both of the persons involved are male adults; but, the actual sex act is not done by homosexuals at all! One of the was a Kodesh, a male holy person, and the other a married-to-a-woman heterosexual man who went to make a ritual sacrfice to the Canaanite fertility gods. And as i stated before, that "kodesh" would put on women's clothing pretending to be Asherah, the Canaanite fertility goddess. In the mind of the heterosexual man from the community, he was not having sexual activity with a male person at all, he was having sex with a woman, the goddess herself! 

It is interesting that people read the Bible without even doing any personal research into the very culture or cultures the Bible's Books' authors were discussing. If you, referring to the author of the person I quoted in this disucssion, don't know anything about the customs of the Canaanites and the Romans and their worship of false gods, you won't even understand what the authors of Leviticus, Romans, I & II Corinthians, and I & II Timothy are talking about in regard to pagan religions. 

In fact, Chapters 18, 19, AND 20 of Leviticus should be read as one complete context. The opening verses of Chapter 18 are repeated/summed up in the closing verses of Chapter 20.  

Oh, the original Living Bible was an English PARAPHRASE, not a translation, of the King James Version of the Bible. Mr. Taylor did not use the Hebrew nor Greek Texts to do that paraphrase. He made lots of mistakes in doing so.  

Literally here is what Leviticus 18:22 states when properly translated from the Hebrew: "And you (male) shall not lay  as one lays with a woman; that is "to'ebah" (a taboo in Hebrew culture/religion).  

Literally in translation, Leviticus 20:13 states: And a man who lies (or lays) with a male as one lies with a woman, both of them have done a "to'ebah." "To'ebah" is translated as "abomination" and "detestable" in various English versions of the Bible. If one eats shrimp, lobster, or even catfish, according to what is in the books of Moses, one has done a "to'ebah." If one eats meat with cheese on it, one has done a "toebah." It was to'ebah to eat pork. So a bacon cheeseburger is a doubled to'ebah!" Modern Bible-thumping "Christians commit what the OT writers called "to'ebah" almost every day of their adult lives.  

Real men who are exclusively homosexual in their sexual orientation and are comfortable with that, i.e. gay, do not pretend that one of them is female in same-gender sexual activity as in the Leviticus' explanation. 

RE: Oh, btw, if you or anyone can tell me how to quote a portion rather than the entire quote, please advise." 

I am using Internet Explorer and when I want to just quote a part of what someone posts, I highlight it and then copy it, either by right-clicking my mouse or go up to "Edit" at the top of the Web Browser and use the "Copy" program under "Edit." Then I click on the Post a message above the messages here and when the whole thing shows up for me to write the message, I click on "Paste" either under "Edit" or right click in the place where I want to post the quote, making sure the cursor, that flashing "|" line is in the open box. 

I have a Hebrew Language Bible, the Masoretic text version of the Old Testament (it is like the original Hebrew except it has added "vowel" pronunciation points around the letters). The Hebrew language literally has no vowels; but, it has some consonants which are considered semi-vowels, in that they might be given a vowel pronunciation. Each Hebrew letter is literally as "syllable" which is like a consonant followed by a vowel sound; but, the vowel sound might not be used, especially if it is at the end of a word. At the time of Jesus, there were still no vowel points in the Hebrew Scriptures. 

I have the New Testament in two different Greek Versions. The one used by the KJV Bible and the Roman Catholic Bible is called the "Textus Receptus," "Text Received" in Latin. That translation is in the same Bible I own which has the Hebrew in the OT.  

The other Greek NT version, usually called the Nestle version, is the same version used by the Translators of the New International Version and also the update of that, which is called "Today's New International Version of the Bible.  

I also have Hebrew and Greek Dictionaries. I actually own several other English versions of the Bible. I used to have an RCC official Bible; but, I gave that to a friend who claimed to be Roman Catholic because he did not have a Bible.  

So, I am making reference to the Bible in the Original Language Texts, in most cases. Sometimes, the English translated words don't have any connection with the original Hebrew or Greek word. That is why I say that "sodomite" does not exist in either the Hebrew nor Greek texts of the Bible. There are no sodomites nor is there any sodomy mentioned in the original texts.  

"Christian" was a hateful epithet (a word that substitutes for another word) that was created by the Greek-speeking pagans who lived in Antioch, Syria. The word was coined to mock those who preached about "The Christ" or more literally, "The Anointed" since "christ" means "anointed" in Greek. They made up the word after hearing Paul and Barnabus preaching about "The Anointed." (Oh, "Messiah" literally means "anointed.") 

The word "christian" is only used 3 times in the Bible; twice in the book of Acts and not by the followers of Jesus The Christ, who called themselves, "Believers" (or more literally "Faiths"). The other place the word appears is in 1 Peter 4:16. In that case, Peter is talking about those who are being made fun of and suffering because the mocking pagans are calling them "Christian."  

From Today's NIV 1 Peter 4:12-19 (bold words added for my interpretation according to context: 

12 Dear friends, do not be surprised at the fiery ordeal that has come on you to test you, as though something strange were happening to you. 13 But rejoice inasmuch as you participate in the sufferings of Christ, so that you may be overjoyed when his glory is revealed. 14 If you are insulted because of the name of Christ, you are blessed, for the Spirit of glory and of God rests on you. 15 If you suffer, it should not be as a murderer or thief or any other kind of criminal, or even as a meddler. 16 However, if you suffer as a Christian (by being mockingly called "Christian"); do not be ashamed, but praise God that you bear that name. 17 For it is time for judgment to begin with God's household; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 18 And,
       "If it is hard for the righteous to be saved,
       what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?"  

   19 So then, those who suffer according to God's will should commit themselves to their faithful Creator and continue to do good. 

When I was a graduate theology/Bible student at Oral Roberts University, two of my PhD professors, one a Pentecostal Baptist (Southern Baptist Convention/Church - SBC) and another an Assemblies of God (AG) (both men were ordained ministers), were involved with the 1st Edition of the New International Version (NIV) Bible translation into English. 

They were given certain guidelines regarding the doctrines of the various Evangelical church denominations so that their churches' beliefs, no matter how wrong, would not conflict with the NIV translation when it was finished. 

Since the SBC and the AG, etc., had messed up believing that the abomination of same-gender sexual activity applied only to those who claimed to be exclusively homosexual, the translation committee followed their directives and put the word "homosexual" where those church demoninations' doctrine people said it should be. 

All of the Bible Societies in the World, especially the USA, are made up of people representing certain denominations. And when any Bible Society creates a new translation, they attempt to follow the guidelines of those denominations which are paying the salary of the translators and their staff. If they did not follow the man-made rules, they would not get paid. 

Jesus, aka The Christ, never said one negative word about homosexual or what might even be considered homosexuality or ever same-gender consensual sexual behavior by adults . . . or even mutually consensual same-gender sexual behavior by those under the age of 18.  

The sin of Sodom is never literally mentioned as same-gender sexual activity. Only one time in the Bible is the sexual activity of the people of Sodom mentioned and that is in verse 7 of the short Epistle of Jude. And even then, it is NOT same-gender sexual activity. 

Here is the King James version of that verse: 

Here is the Today's New International Version of that same Verse: 

           "In a similar way, Sodom and Gomorrah and the surrounding towns gave themselves up to sexual immorality and perversion. They serve as an example of those who suffer the punishment of eternal fire." 

"Porneia" is translated as "fornication" in the KJV and as "sexual immorality" in the TNIV. "Porneia" literally refers to the "sexual activity of female prostitutes with male customers."  

The "strange flesh' in the KJV is interesting especially after one looks at the two words in the Original Greek Text of Jude. "Strange" is the translation of "heteras," which is another form of the word "hetero." The opposite of "homo" (same) is "hetero" (which does mean "opposite or different").  

Since Jude was the half-brother of Jesus, Jude's parents were Mary and Joseph, more than likely Jude's first language was Hebrew, or the Aramaic dialect of it. Jude, his brother James (literally Jacob), like Jesus, when growing up studied the original Scriptures in Hebrew and they apparenlty translated their Hebrew thoughts into everyday Greek, in the Koine dialect of it.  

The word translated in the KJV as "flesh" and in the TNIV as "perversion" is "sarx." Well, "sarx" is the Greek translation of the Hebrew word, "basar" (flesh). Basar is used as a Hebrew euphemism (substitute polite word) for gender, sexual parts or genitals, male or female. 

So the "Strange Flesh" in proper interpretation here is "heterosexual sex." "Heteras sarx" would be translated as "heterosexual" in modern English.