07/23 Anatomy of a Divorce, Part 3
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Posted by: leona21921
Posted on: 2004-05-26 09:06:47
Now that the divorce is final, Amy wants John to MOVE BACK IN AND PAY HER RENT? Is that about CONTROL or what? Amy, let it go. I’m sure that John will find a home for himself without you. As for the children, I doubt that John would intentionally allow his children to be in an inappropriate environment. He loves the children too.
Your divorce is final now, Amy. The only issue left is raising the children in a loving manner. How could you possibly think that having John in the home with you could be good for the children? It didn’t work when you were married, it didn’t work when you were legally separated, it won’t work after the divorce. Let him go.
I sincerely hope that both of you make an effort to be friends, for the sake of the children.
Posted by: leona21921
Posted on: 2004-05-26 09:06:47
Now that the divorce is final, Amy wants John to MOVE BACK IN AND PAY HER RENT? Is that about CONTROL or what? Amy, let it go. I’m sure that John will find a home for himself without you. As for the children, I doubt that John would intentionally allow his children to be in an inappropriate environment. He loves the children too.
Your divorce is final now, Amy. The only issue left is raising the children in a loving manner. How could you possibly think that having John in the home with you could be good for the children? It didn’t work when you were married, it didn’t work when you were legally separated, it won’t work after the divorce. Let him go.
I sincerely hope that both of you make an effort to be friends, for the sake of the children.
POOR JOHN
Posted by: mom2yugi
Posted on: 2004-05-26 16:22:00
Dr. Phil I have to commend you on your handling of Amy. If I were you I would have blasted her behaviour. I think if John were an abuser as she says I don't think he could have sit there so calmly. She needs anger mgmt in the worst way. She is definitely a right fighter and a control freak. I hope for the kids sake they are civil to one another, but if John is smart, he will stay far far away from the evil one. I can only imagine her old lawyer was totally releived to be fired. Bless her for hanging on so long.
Posted by: mom2yugi
Posted on: 2004-05-26 16:22:00
Dr. Phil I have to commend you on your handling of Amy. If I were you I would have blasted her behaviour. I think if John were an abuser as she says I don't think he could have sit there so calmly. She needs anger mgmt in the worst way. She is definitely a right fighter and a control freak. I hope for the kids sake they are civil to one another, but if John is smart, he will stay far far away from the evil one. I can only imagine her old lawyer was totally releived to be fired. Bless her for hanging on so long.
Posted by: bevsears
Posted on: 2004-05-26 17:45:27
Did you miss the part where Dr Phil said that John was equally guilty? Just because he does it in such a passive way, does not mean his behavior is any better.
Of course John can sit there calmly. That is the way he operates. He works very hard at coming across as the good guy. He slips his digs and insults in very quietly so you hardly notice them. He did not fool Dr Phil for one minute.
John and Amy, no comparison
Posted by: bathos
Posted on: 2004-05-26 18:33:02
If John is as bad as Amy, at least he has the presence of mind to control himself in public. Amy is out of control (scatter brain) and rattles off even to her own detriment. She makes herself look bad.
Posted by: bathos
Posted on: 2004-05-26 18:33:02
If John is as bad as Amy, at least he has the presence of mind to control himself in public. Amy is out of control (scatter brain) and rattles off even to her own detriment. She makes herself look bad.
I agree
Posted by: thunderhil
Posted on: 2004-05-26 20:09:30
Never, in this series, did we see John get agitated. If he is such a violent and abusive man, certainly we would have seen something, i.e. a red face, tense expression. He looks like a man at the end of his rope dealing with a psychotic woman!
Posted by: thunderhil
Posted on: 2004-05-26 20:09:30
Never, in this series, did we see John get agitated. If he is such a violent and abusive man, certainly we would have seen something, i.e. a red face, tense expression. He looks like a man at the end of his rope dealing with a psychotic woman!
Totally agree
Posted by: mrspkm
Posted on: 2004-05-26 22:21:31
I agree totally. John is definitely dealing with a psychotic woman. It seemed amazing how well Dr. Phil kept in control or should I say kept Amy in control. She even tried to control Dr. Phil wanting to get his total attention.
I hope that John can make a life of his own with his children and away from AMY!. I know he has to deal with her but she needs medication!!!!!
Posted by: mrspkm
Posted on: 2004-05-26 22:21:31
I agree totally. John is definitely dealing with a psychotic woman. It seemed amazing how well Dr. Phil kept in control or should I say kept Amy in control. She even tried to control Dr. Phil wanting to get his total attention.
I hope that John can make a life of his own with his children and away from AMY!. I know he has to deal with her but she needs medication!!!!!
What? Totally Agree?
Posted by: 4allpeace
Posted on: 2004-07-26 23:01:24
By definition, battery in a relationship can be equally as viscious when manifested as emotional and/or physical. The victim is literally worn down mentally, kind of like a brain washing. It is a known trait of this syndrome that the victim and the abuser, after a period of time, begin to mirror each other. Then the victim many times assumes the reality of the abuser, so much so, that they (the victim) cannot leave the relationship, because they actually "believe" the other person (the abuser) can't make it without them. Further, part of reconditioning a victim from an abuser is separation for a period of time so the victim can see things clearly. Try looking at it from this point of view and on a positive note, maybe now that the divorce is over they will each be able to become "whole" individuals again, "whole" parents to their children and then in time, forgive each other.
Posted by: 4allpeace
Posted on: 2004-07-26 23:01:24
By definition, battery in a relationship can be equally as viscious when manifested as emotional and/or physical. The victim is literally worn down mentally, kind of like a brain washing. It is a known trait of this syndrome that the victim and the abuser, after a period of time, begin to mirror each other. Then the victim many times assumes the reality of the abuser, so much so, that they (the victim) cannot leave the relationship, because they actually "believe" the other person (the abuser) can't make it without them. Further, part of reconditioning a victim from an abuser is separation for a period of time so the victim can see things clearly. Try looking at it from this point of view and on a positive note, maybe now that the divorce is over they will each be able to become "whole" individuals again, "whole" parents to their children and then in time, forgive each other.
Posted by: betsonmaui
Posted on: 2004-05-27 08:07:35
l think John is the lucky one here, he needs to get rid of Amy. She came off as being a selfish manipulating person. I was so proud of Dr. Phil when he told her he would let her know when he wanted to hold her hand. She was feeling defensive because of her actions. People were getting on John for recording her, well...now we can see why her did. She tries to act so sweet and nice on the show. What she is not acknowledging is that she was abusive to everyone who didn't go along with her childish ways. I feel sorry for her kids.. good ridance to her l say.
WAKE UP
Posted by: lvwlupus
Posted on: 2004-07-26 08:00:59
HELLO! Did everyone forget how John was secretly taping Amy with a voice activated recorder???? He is a sleeze ball! A total jerk! You talk about Amy (not that I am defending her) being manipulating, he has it written all over his face, you are very lucky that you have never experienced a person like him he is the kind of slime that would lurk in the shadows to aggravate and entice someone to go over the edge. If you were in her shoes what would you do? I have no sympathy for jerks like him, I feel sorry for Amy. She has no idea what it is to live with harmony. She will always have her guard up. CAN YOU BLAME HER??? Her lawyer was in cahoots with his lawyer and not defending her client. THAT WAS WRONG! she was paid to look after the best interest of the client not the best interest of her buddy, that was unethical. I think she is a very emotional person and didn't think rationally. John was calculating and evil. HE IS SCARY!
Posted by: lvwlupus
Posted on: 2004-07-26 08:00:59
HELLO! Did everyone forget how John was secretly taping Amy with a voice activated recorder???? He is a sleeze ball! A total jerk! You talk about Amy (not that I am defending her) being manipulating, he has it written all over his face, you are very lucky that you have never experienced a person like him he is the kind of slime that would lurk in the shadows to aggravate and entice someone to go over the edge. If you were in her shoes what would you do? I have no sympathy for jerks like him, I feel sorry for Amy. She has no idea what it is to live with harmony. She will always have her guard up. CAN YOU BLAME HER??? Her lawyer was in cahoots with his lawyer and not defending her client. THAT WAS WRONG! she was paid to look after the best interest of the client not the best interest of her buddy, that was unethical. I think she is a very emotional person and didn't think rationally. John was calculating and evil. HE IS SCARY!
Not Necessarily
Posted by: bugj25
Posted on: 2004-05-27 08:55:36
Not neccesarily. People can be abusive without being "red-faced". John can be passive-aggressive. Not that I'm agreeing with Amy's way of handling things, but as Dr. Phil said, they are BOTH in the wrong.
Posted by: bugj25
Posted on: 2004-05-27 08:55:36
Not neccesarily. People can be abusive without being "red-faced". John can be passive-aggressive. Not that I'm agreeing with Amy's way of handling things, but as Dr. Phil said, they are BOTH in the wrong.
thoughts from england
Posted by: uk_flake
Posted on: 2004-08-03 08:11:04
In England what often happens is that a owned home shared by a couple would be sold and the money equally divided so that both parties have an equal chance at a new home, this is often best because then there is no resentment at one party "winning" the marital home prize and that neither party slips back into old behaviour when visiting back in the old environment where they began their divorce and problems... occasionally the mother is permited to live in it till the children are 16 but this is not advisable for the reasons already stated - amy and john would benefit from this, although I suspect with a lesser chance of earning the same as john and because she has the children to raise more than 50% of the time perhaps a 65%-35% split would be fairer... I hope they can learn to accept this and one another and be at peace with their new standing as co-parents, it would be so much healthier
Posted by: uk_flake
Posted on: 2004-08-03 08:11:04
In England what often happens is that a owned home shared by a couple would be sold and the money equally divided so that both parties have an equal chance at a new home, this is often best because then there is no resentment at one party "winning" the marital home prize and that neither party slips back into old behaviour when visiting back in the old environment where they began their divorce and problems... occasionally the mother is permited to live in it till the children are 16 but this is not advisable for the reasons already stated - amy and john would benefit from this, although I suspect with a lesser chance of earning the same as john and because she has the children to raise more than 50% of the time perhaps a 65%-35% split would be fairer... I hope they can learn to accept this and one another and be at peace with their new standing as co-parents, it would be so much healthier
Rerun comment
Posted by: sonoransun
Posted on: 2004-07-23 21:58:37
I'm watching this show as a rerun. I am surprised that many posters aren't aware of how people who are abusive are very skilled at concealing it. I don't think that either of the two marital partners behaved well, but in a way, I almost feel John was worse as he acted another way when others were around. Comparatively, Amy acted much the same when in public and private --true--she made herself look bad, but at least she did not seem disturbingly pathological as John did.
Finally, I think John's lawyer was rather excessive in terms of baiting Amy. BUT --isn't that a lawyer's job ---to make the opponent uncomfortable and off balance? So in a way, while I find her behavior less than noble, I must admire.... After all, it's very lawyerly....
Sad thing. I hope they can grow up and that their kids are going to be okay.
Posted by: sonoransun
Posted on: 2004-07-23 21:58:37
I'm watching this show as a rerun. I am surprised that many posters aren't aware of how people who are abusive are very skilled at concealing it. I don't think that either of the two marital partners behaved well, but in a way, I almost feel John was worse as he acted another way when others were around. Comparatively, Amy acted much the same when in public and private --true--she made herself look bad, but at least she did not seem disturbingly pathological as John did.
Finally, I think John's lawyer was rather excessive in terms of baiting Amy. BUT --isn't that a lawyer's job ---to make the opponent uncomfortable and off balance? So in a way, while I find her behavior less than noble, I must admire.... After all, it's very lawyerly....
Sad thing. I hope they can grow up and that their kids are going to be okay.
passive-agressive john
Posted by: paris007
Posted on: 2004-07-23 23:00:25
I totally agree with your take on both John and Amy. John is very passive-aggressive and pushes all the buttons to which Amy reacts to. John is clearly the one I suspect to be worse and just because he displayed a calm manner certainly does not portray what truely lies beneath. Amy may have appeared to be the "loose cannon" but this was what I felt to be years of being frustrated and she was simply venting it. Sure she needs improvement, but John is the one that needs to be more accountable and has a long way yet to go when it comes to achieving any success in future relationships.
Posted by: paris007
Posted on: 2004-07-23 23:00:25
I totally agree with your take on both John and Amy. John is very passive-aggressive and pushes all the buttons to which Amy reacts to. John is clearly the one I suspect to be worse and just because he displayed a calm manner certainly does not portray what truely lies beneath. Amy may have appeared to be the "loose cannon" but this was what I felt to be years of being frustrated and she was simply venting it. Sure she needs improvement, but John is the one that needs to be more accountable and has a long way yet to go when it comes to achieving any success in future relationships.
i agree
Posted by: dustcase
Posted on: 2004-05-28 00:03:16
I totally agree if she cannot act like a decent human being in front of the camera, knowing that she is being filmed and recorded I can only imagine what she is like without the cameras.
She feels that because she lived in a horrible marriage that she deserves everything, why? because she choose to stay in the marriage. She should have left a long time ago no one had her feet nailed to the floor.
No matter how horrible a marriage can be the property should be split down the middle as much as possible.
i lived in a physcially abusesive marriage for thirty years, that was my choice. I eventually left it but not once did i feel that I was due everything. We both worked therefore I felt we should split it all fairly nor did I ever hate the man and act like this woman has acted.
She should be ashamed of herself. I do not feel that they will ever be civil to one another even for the kid's sake they simply cannot stand each other they are both, more so her, so focused on the fault of the other. She has way too much bitterness towards him to ever have a civil relationship with him.
Posted by: dustcase
Posted on: 2004-05-28 00:03:16
I totally agree if she cannot act like a decent human being in front of the camera, knowing that she is being filmed and recorded I can only imagine what she is like without the cameras.
She feels that because she lived in a horrible marriage that she deserves everything, why? because she choose to stay in the marriage. She should have left a long time ago no one had her feet nailed to the floor.
No matter how horrible a marriage can be the property should be split down the middle as much as possible.
i lived in a physcially abusesive marriage for thirty years, that was my choice. I eventually left it but not once did i feel that I was due everything. We both worked therefore I felt we should split it all fairly nor did I ever hate the man and act like this woman has acted.
She should be ashamed of herself. I do not feel that they will ever be civil to one another even for the kid's sake they simply cannot stand each other they are both, more so her, so focused on the fault of the other. She has way too much bitterness towards him to ever have a civil relationship with him.
Its Johns fault too
Posted by: mrswife
Posted on: 2004-05-27 09:03:52
I agree that John is equally guilty in this marriage failure. He has deprived his wife of love, emotional support, companionship, comfort, sex, acceptance, protection, etc. No wonder Amy is so defensive and angry! She is trying to survive the abuse and neglect he inflicted. She should have left him a long time ago before she got this bitter and hurt. I also think that she should get most of the property and assets because John can earn more than her. Many single moms end up living in poverty and debt. I hope she can make it.
Posted by: mrswife
Posted on: 2004-05-27 09:03:52
I agree that John is equally guilty in this marriage failure. He has deprived his wife of love, emotional support, companionship, comfort, sex, acceptance, protection, etc. No wonder Amy is so defensive and angry! She is trying to survive the abuse and neglect he inflicted. She should have left him a long time ago before she got this bitter and hurt. I also think that she should get most of the property and assets because John can earn more than her. Many single moms end up living in poverty and debt. I hope she can make it.
John is guilty; Amy stupid
Posted by: celmom
Posted on: 2004-05-27 19:20:45
I agree that John probably withheld attention and affection in the marrige - and I have heard Dr. Phil say that withholding is a form of abuse. However, Amy was not smart in the way she responded to the neglect. Did she think her shrill anger, and bitterness was going to make her more LOVEABLE and get her what she wanted? Too bad they weren't in the relationship rescue retreat
Posted by: celmom
Posted on: 2004-05-27 19:20:45
I agree that John probably withheld attention and affection in the marrige - and I have heard Dr. Phil say that withholding is a form of abuse. However, Amy was not smart in the way she responded to the neglect. Did she think her shrill anger, and bitterness was going to make her more LOVEABLE and get her what she wanted? Too bad they weren't in the relationship rescue retreat
DISAGREE!!!!
Posted by: lalah725
Posted on: 2004-07-23 17:03:30
No Way!! "Moms" are adults, not children. If they end up living in poverty it is their own fault. Maybe if they got off their buts and worked as hard as the "Dads", they wouldn't be so poor. Men in this country get financially raped in a divorce. Women have historically hid behind their children in an effort to take assets and cash that they never worked for! If they love their children, they will provide for them. Anyone man or woman who does not respect their children and consider them worth the effort it takes to support them should not have children in the first place. (I am a woman and a grandmother)
Posted by: lalah725
Posted on: 2004-07-23 17:03:30
No Way!! "Moms" are adults, not children. If they end up living in poverty it is their own fault. Maybe if they got off their buts and worked as hard as the "Dads", they wouldn't be so poor. Men in this country get financially raped in a divorce. Women have historically hid behind their children in an effort to take assets and cash that they never worked for! If they love their children, they will provide for them. Anyone man or woman who does not respect their children and consider them worth the effort it takes to support them should not have children in the first place. (I am a woman and a grandmother)
gramma you got your head in the sand...
Posted by: sonoransun
Posted on: 2004-07-23 22:59:47
...assets and cash that they never worked for???? What do you think stay-at-home parents do? --Vacation? I don't think so. I think parenting is a tough job. And if a parent stays home and parents the kids while the other spouse works --they both are ensuring that family is sustained with regard to emotional, spiritual, physical, financial and other needs. On another note, keep an eye on the headlines...women still earn less than men in the workplace. We're still seeing evidence of these issues in the press ---note the class action suit against Walmart by women who say they were passed by for managerial positions...There was enough evidence to support a class action suit! That's for the bottom of the barrel earners....a bit higher up the food chain, note the recent multimillion dollar settlement by a Wall Street firm that paid women less than men who were paid more and did less.
Posted by: sonoransun
Posted on: 2004-07-23 22:59:47
...assets and cash that they never worked for???? What do you think stay-at-home parents do? --Vacation? I don't think so. I think parenting is a tough job. And if a parent stays home and parents the kids while the other spouse works --they both are ensuring that family is sustained with regard to emotional, spiritual, physical, financial and other needs. On another note, keep an eye on the headlines...women still earn less than men in the workplace. We're still seeing evidence of these issues in the press ---note the class action suit against Walmart by women who say they were passed by for managerial positions...There was enough evidence to support a class action suit! That's for the bottom of the barrel earners....a bit higher up the food chain, note the recent multimillion dollar settlement by a Wall Street firm that paid women less than men who were paid more and did less.
It's all about being a responsible adult
Posted by: lalah725
Posted on: 2004-07-24 08:49:46
When a woman has children, she should be prepared to take on the role as head of the household if necessary. Many things can happen, divorce, death of a spouse, disablement of a spouse, etc. If she is not prepared then she has failed her family. Where is it written that men should bear the financial burden of a family alone? Today's economy is based on a 2-income household and although I agree it is a bit harder for women to earn as much as a man in some cases, it is far from impossible. I've done it. I think too many women choose to stick to the "traditional" roles of wife & mother because it is easier not because it is the right thing to do for their family.
Posted by: lalah725
Posted on: 2004-07-24 08:49:46
When a woman has children, she should be prepared to take on the role as head of the household if necessary. Many things can happen, divorce, death of a spouse, disablement of a spouse, etc. If she is not prepared then she has failed her family. Where is it written that men should bear the financial burden of a family alone? Today's economy is based on a 2-income household and although I agree it is a bit harder for women to earn as much as a man in some cases, it is far from impossible. I've done it. I think too many women choose to stick to the "traditional" roles of wife & mother because it is easier not because it is the right thing to do for their family.
