06/30 Pushy Parents

What to expect
Posted by: mooseblee
Posted on: 2005-02-06 00:40:56

About the parents who want their child to be a prodigy, children are what they are, they can't create something that there isn't. BUT, they are doing something very good for that child by teaching her Spanish and sign language at this age. She will pick it up SO much faster now than when she's older. It will give her a great advantage! My daughter is 20 months old and learning sign language and some spanish. She can communicate with how she feels most comfortable, and learns so quickly! When she was just 9 months old she could tell me what she wanted by using signs. I'm not expecting my daughter to be some genius, I love her just the way she is. I'll have high expectations, but not so high that I set her up for failure. Hopefully those parents aren't really expecting their daughter to be a prodigy if she isn't. Hopefully they'll be glad that she's happy and healthy.

Posted by: upirlichy
Posted on: 2005-02-08 15:49:34

There's a extremely large chance of her being harassed, bullied or used in school when she is older though. High school wouldn't be a walk in the park if you're above average. I'm still in high school, and I hear what peers say about the exceptional students. Even if you're homeschooled you get picked on.
Dumbing down
Posted by: traciwith2
Posted on: 2005-02-08 17:13:30

This is just one of the reasons I do homeschool my children. I do not want my children to feel they need to dumb down to fit in. We belong to a very large home school group full of exceptional children. I have never seen any of them harrased because they are "above average". I do think the parents on the show carried things to far, but there are worse things a parent can do.
Me Too!
Posted by: omnium2
Posted on: 2005-02-08 17:46:07

I took my son out of school too. We tried both public and private and finally pulled him for the same reasons you state among others. Where are you? I'm in Florida.
Relax
Posted by: rhs1990
Posted on: 2005-02-08 19:05:53

I think some people overreact. They hear "some exceptional kids are picked on at school" and make rash decisions. I am currently at a public highschool and sure I am not the brightest in my class, but I'd like to think I am firmly in the upper half and I have had no problem with having to dumb down. I think the reason that some kids are made fun of for being smart is because they have taken time to just PLAY. They have been so caught up with being the best or getting an A that they haven't been out making friends. And then they can't present projects or work with a group because they think they are always right.
A person who never fails never learns
Posted by: houndmom
Posted on: 2005-06-30 21:07:48

I agree with you completely! I wish more parents had your attitude about school. It's not about how much knowledge you can cram into a kid by what age, it's about giving kids the skills they need to succeed as adults. In order to succeed, people need to be able to accept and learn from their failures. Parents who push their kids and make sure they never "fail" are not doing them any favors.

Research shows that by age 18, kids who are pushed academically at an early age do not come out ahead of those who follow a normal academic career. An "exceptional" three year old does not necessarily become an "exceptional" adult.

Way to go, kid. I admire you. The ability to relax and play is a necessary life skill!

Just one Houndmom's rant...
Isolating your children
Posted by: janiengs
Posted on: 2005-02-08 19:50:36

Homeschooling is a way of isolating your children from the real world: different people, different situations, different problems. Your "very large home school group" ensures that your children will stick with other children like them, instead of dealing with the cultural mosaic that our world really is. It is too bad that your educational vision is so limited. Education is not just about what goes on in the classroom, but is about children dealing with children of other beliefs, other values and other cultures. Keeping your children in this protective bubble isolates them from the real world and does not prepare them for adulthood.

I have been a teacher for over 29 years. I have taught gifted kids. Unfortunately, one of the main challenges "giftedness" brings to a child is the inability to socialize. Socialization is critical in order for those of exceptional ability to enjoy a full and rewarding life.

Students that I have taught who have been homeschooled who later in life are re-integrated into a main school stream may be more advanced in some areas of academics, but are far behind in so many areas of social interaction. Playing on sports teams, being in bands, participating in student government are all part of school life from an early age. Homeschooled students find it hard to make friends, join groups, or fit in the longer they are kept at home.

How sad it is that some adolescents never have the opportunity to experience the enriching opportunties of a thriving school community if they are kept at home under their parents' influence until they are an adult?

You are teaching elitism and intolerance toward others through your efforts toward making your child "the best".

There is no greater reward than community involvement and giving back toward others through everyday interactions at school and at work.
Homeschooling
Posted by: stspit
Posted on: 2005-02-08 20:24:25

I'm sorry you have such a limited view of homeschooling. I was a public school teacher for a number of years before I had children. I do homeschool my four children, and will continue to do so. Homeschooled children are extremely socialized just not the way you see it. They are involved in many activities, (gymnastics, soccer, swimming, choir and ballet) do community projects where they interact with the general population, and yes, socialize with their homeschooled peers.

It is really not an effort for them to be "the best" at everything, it is an effort for me to have more control over what they learn i.e. creation/evolution. In addition, I am able to shield them from certain elements. I have a neighbor who just started her child in Kindergarten, and felt she had to go ahead and explain sex to her because she was going to hear it at school from others. How sad, and what a commentary on our times. That is what I wish to shield my four young ones from, until I am ready for them to know.

I do want them to do the best with whatever they pursue. Their best, not "the best".

Congratulations on teaching for so long. You must really have a heart for it.
Sex?
Posted by: fatreagan
Posted on: 2005-02-17 13:25:46

Just two questions, you say that you homeschool your children so you can 'shield' them from issues you don't want them to deal with, yet. However, in the breath you say that they are in choir, soccer, etc. How are they not exposed to these elements during these social(izing) activities? And, how long are you going to shield your children from the realities of life?
Careful of tarring everyone with the same brush
Posted by: houndmom
Posted on: 2005-06-30 21:36:23

Not all homeschoolers "isolate" their kids. A few do, and I don't agree with this practice. Shielding kids from every possible bad influence will make it harder for them to make moral decisions in the future. I went to college with such a girl, who was "protected" from bad language and any knowledge of sex, drugs and alcohol. She was never allowed to read newspapers or watch TV for fear of seeing something "bad." Once on her own, she went off the deep end. She drank and partied excessively, became boy crazy and ended up getting pregnant and having to drop out at the end of freshman year.

Anyway, most of the homeschoolers I know find ways for their kids to interact with their peers, and the kids do just fine socially. Most provide moral guidance without fanatical isolationism.

Just as not all public schools are horrible hotbeds of immorality, not all homeschoolers are prudish isolationists.
homeschooling --- isolation?!? What!?!!!!
Posted by: megilligan
Posted on: 2005-02-08 20:34:19

Homeschooling is anything BUT isolation! I was also a teacher for many years before becoming a parent and teaching my kids at home.

I found that a huge 'isolation' factor was sending my kids to school and having them "socialized" by 25 other 6 year olds. Fortunately, with us homeschooling, my kids are socialized by their own homeschool group of 150 families, band, sports, YMCA, church, Spanish class, adults, grandparents, kids of ALL ages.

My children, because they aren't 'socialized' by a bunch of other 6 year olds, can intellectually hold a conversation with anyone from age 2 to 90 years old.

On the contrary to your e-mail, we get huge compliments with how our children are 'socially'. So much so that I've been asked by several friends how they can join the 'homeschool movement' for SOCIAL reasons (not just the academic benefits of one on one attention). Far from isolating, we are gone to so many enriching activities that I long for more time at home in our busy schedules!

Obviously you are misinformed!
Isolating your Children?
Posted by: fun4ever
Posted on: 2005-02-08 20:50:32

I have a degree to teach in public schools and come from several generations of public school teachers. But we homeschooled our own two children and have no regrets. Today, both are in college. One is still the quiet, more introverted type- just as was evident as a young child. The other is an extremely sociable, fun loving person, just as he was from the very beginning. These traits of sociability seem to be largely inborn. Homeschoolers are often very active in sports, bands, theatre groups, Scouts, YMCA, volunteer activities, church, etc etc etc. Our family and our homeschooling friends certainly were. Our problems sometimes centered around staying home and hitting the books enough, with all the wonderful opportunities to be involved in the community. Most of all though, I feel that God helped our children turn out to be doing well both academically and socially, as adults. Our love for God and the Bible guided us especially the verse that says, "But seek first the Kingdom of God and His righteousness, and all these other things shall be added unto you." Matthew 6:33
I feel this was a big help to us in parenting - it would be easy to make our children a "false god" in our lives, because they are such precious gifts. We tried to remember to put God first not our kids. The more we did that, the better off we all were.
Right on about Homeschooling, but back to Barry...
Posted by: mimateach
Posted on: 2005-02-08 22:03:08

Even though Barry is not in that situation, you are exactly on target about homeschooling. Students in public schools learn more about getting along with all kinds of people. In real life, you must be able to deal with all types, so learn it early. Sure you want to protect your children, but is it not better to empower them by learning from their experiences? The types of students who can be really successful after being homeschooled would be better off if they were left in the mix at school and so would the rest of the student population. Pulling certain types of kids out changes the skew of the school population too.

As for Barry...At age 13, kids do tease; it comes with the territory. But it seems to be going way beyond normal here. Why? Didn't the parents have some control over all of this publicity? How is it he got to do the weather in a good sized city?? What did they do to balance this with some kind of normalcy? What has he done to befriend others at his school? Has he joined any service groups in school or out??

I have known students who have been pushed by their parents to be in pagaents, to be most beautiful, or to be most talented. If they grow to believe that they are the most important (or talented) person in the world without giving back in kindness and good deeds, kids WILL harrass. You can count on it.
About Homeschooling
Posted by: jleigh1975
Posted on: 2005-02-09 11:17:52

I homeschool my children and I feel that this is one of the best things I have ever done for my children. I am so thankful to have the opportunity to do so. My children get plenty of socialization, with people of all ages. Socialization goes far beyond what a child may or may not get from a public/private school setting. Who are your children socializing at school with anyway? All children break off into their own little peer groups anyway, atleast as a homeschooling mother, I can control who they are around and what they are exposed to, so that when they go out in the world, MAYBE, just maybe they will make better social choices. For us, homeschooling is not just about the books, it is about family. I dont want to send my young children off to school everyday, I throughly enjoy having them here at home with us. They will only be young once, you only get one chance to do things right, no matter where they go to school.

We are all parents and we are not all going to agree on what is "the best" for our children, but as long as you feel you are giving them the best, that is all that matters. I think that acceptance is very important, you dont have to like my choices, but learn to accept and not judge, what I am doing may be right for my family and not yours, it doesnt mean that either one of us is doing anything wrong.
About homeschooling
Posted by: klbeattie
Posted on: 2005-02-09 11:45:32

It sounds to me like you and many others who have posted messages and home school their children are doing this right for your children. I work as a counselor for kids and I can tell you that the main problem mine and my collegues see with homeschooling is when the parents do not put the effort into socializing out of the home. To a parent like you, this may seem surprising, but some parents homeschool their kids because it makes their life easier because they don't have to get their kids up, don't have to deal with teachers, etc. I work with kids who have little to no social contact with kids because the effort is not their from the parents to get them involved. However, this is a small portion of parents, but I feel they may be giving the rest of you a bad reputation. Bottom line, your the parent and all children are unique and have differnt needs. My only hope is that in the future if your children want to try mainstream school for valid reasons that they have that chance. Some kids really want that.

Also, I understand that you are able to control more of who your children hang around with, but I also feel that if you are teaching the right values and morals to your children, they will choose the right group of peers on their own without you having to control that. Let's face it, someday you aren't going to be able to have this type of control, and your children need to trust their ability in making the right choices for themselves.
Amen
Posted by: angmom72
Posted on: 2005-02-09 09:05:16

Amen about homeschooling and the socialization problem. In our area, it is not the norm, but I seem to be well-acquainted w/a number of them. One family I am personally close to had a number of children who entered the public schools primarily for sports opportunities. My child was a member of a team they were on. These children, bright w/exceptional athletic ability, were so obnoxious and arrogant that most people avoided them, & they responded by being even more abrasive. However,over time, they learned to modify their behavior & are now very delightful kids. They learned to respect the general hierarchy of age through peers who reminded them they were younger--and they needed to learn respect to survive in a job in the future. They learned to care about other people, and to be a little bit modest and let others compliment them. Social skills are essential to happiness and success--I have close friends and relatives who are brilliant, but they cannot function because they cannot deal with other people.
Pygmalion Effect
Posted by: mamamojo9
Posted on: 2005-02-09 09:42:44

You know, when I see comments like this from teachers, I wonder how much of it can be attributed to the Pygmalion Effect...where you see what you expect to see instead of what actually is.
It seems the homeschooling parent can't win in the eyes of teachers. The same child that the average person in the grocery store comments on as a joy for their calm, respectful nature, is often called 'unsocialized' by teachers (and others who hold the same expectations) who know they have been, or are being homeschooled.
My child has been homeschooled and is now in public school.
She was quickly 'socialized' to understand that she was to speak when spoken to and not to 'socialize' in class. That was for those 3 minutes in the hall between classes...instead of with every natural interaction she encountered in community life.
She learned that bullies rule, and the best way to stay out of their radar is to be unobtrusive...even though that is not her nature in any other environment.
She's learned that if her opinion differs from a teacher's, she is always wrong, and if it differs from the majority of her classmates, ridicule is acceptable.
She has learned that she is "supposed to be" preoccupied and self-conscious about her looks and isn't 'supposed' to like math or science...which she loved and excelled at before public school.
Her friends have 'socialized' her by informing her that oral sex is 'like kissing' (thank goodness she knew better before she encountered this!) and the teachers have taught her that the way to deal with this 'socialization' is to put the boys and girls on separate buses for 'social' events.
She has learned that 'lockdown drills' are just part of life because her 'socialized' classmates could go crazy and kill everyone at any moment.
All this and we live in a small, midwestern town! Gee, I wonder what 'sociailization' she's missing out on by not having to navigate a metal detector every morning?
As for "playing on sports teams, being in bands, participating in student government" I went to public school for 13 years...I didn't do any of those things, nor did most of the people I knew. Those were the domains belonging to a privledged few. Yet, many of the homeschooled kids I know have done those things and more, as they were encouraged to follow their interests. I don't know what groups you have been exposed to, but the homeschooled kids I knew enrolled in gymnastics, pottery classes, community education programs, swimming classes...all sorts of places where they were exposed to 'the cultural mosaic that our world really is'. They were out in the community volunteering and contributing while they learned.
So, I would have to say it is too bad that YOUR educational vision is so limited.
Homeschooling all the way
Posted by: deanfan
Posted on: 2005-06-30 11:09:46

I agree with the people who firmly believe that homeschooling is the way to go. I am 22 years old and I remember my elementary, junior high, and highschool days with much regret because I receieved a public school education. There came a point, in highschool when I started to hear about homeschooling because of discussions on television about education alternatives. I never got the oppurtunity to be homeschooled, but after hearing that it was an alternative to a public school education, I thought to myself that homeschooling is definately the way to go if a parent wants to maintain some control over their children's lives when they are most vulnerable to negative outside influences. I was never happy receiving a public school education. I think most public schools are just currupting environments in which kids really do feel pressure to fit into a social group or be left out in the cold. Public schools have become a place in which socialization has become more of a priority than actually receiving a decent education. I think that it is important for people to remember that the public school system has been around for a long time now, but it has not always been in existence. If parents decide that public schooling is not the best thing for their kids, then they have the right to choose an alternative to that without hearing all of the criticism because of that choice. As long as homeschooling incorporates positive social situations for the children who receive homeschooling then I don't see the problem whatsoever. Ive realized that one of the major downfalls to the public school system is that alot of parents then become complacent about their own responsibility to teach their kids at home as well. The public school teacher then becomes the be all and end all of the child's education. The teacher meets the hard responsibility of being both the parent and the teacher but then gets criticized by parents who don't take on an active role at home in the first place. I believe that most parents who homeschool really believe that they also have a serious responsibilty for their childrens' education. Nowadays, there are newsreports all the time about how kids have been hurt by other kids in public school (in suburban schools for the most part by the way, which just goes to show that in spite of what people think about suburban school districts, it really doesnt matter what public or private school kids attend now, it has all gone down the drain.) I will definately homeschool when I become a parent.
Pygmalion Effect
Posted by: mamamojo9
Posted on: 2005-02-09 14:08:32

You know, when I see comments like this from teachers, I wonder how much of it can be attributed to the Pygmalion Effect...where you see what you expect to see instead of what actually is.
It seems the homeschooling parent can't win in the eyes of teachers. The same child that the average person in the grocery store comments on as a joy for their calm, respectful nature, is often called 'unsocialized' by teachers (and others who hold the same expectations) who know they have been, or are being homeschooled.
My child has been homeschooled and is now in public school.
She was quickly 'socialized' to understand that she was to speak when spoken to and not to 'socialize' in class. That was for those 3 minutes in the hall between classes...instead of with every natural interaction she encountered in community life.
She learned that bullies rule, and the best way to stay out of their radar is to be unobtrusive...even though that is not her nature in any other environment.
She's learned that if her opinion differs from a teacher's, she is always wrong, and if it differs from the majority of her classmates, ridicule is acceptable.
She has learned that she is "supposed to be" preoccupied and self-conscious about her looks and isn't 'supposed' to like math or science...which she loved and excelled at before public school.
Her friends have 'socialized' her by informing her that oral sex is 'like kissing' (thank goodness she knew better before she encountered this!) and the teachers have taught her that the way to deal with this 'socialization' is to put the boys and girls on separate buses for 'social' events.
She has learned that 'lockdown drills' are just part of life because her 'socialized' classmates could go crazy and kill everyone at any moment.
All this and we live in a small, midwestern town! Gee, I wonder what 'sociailization' she's missing out on by not having to navigate a metal detector every morning?
As for "playing on sports teams, being in bands, participating in student government" I went to public school for 13 years...I didn't do any of those things, nor did most of the people I knew. Those were the domains belonging to a privledged few. Yet, many of the homeschooled kids I know have done those things and more, as they were encouraged to follow their interests. I don't know what groups you have been exposed to, but the homeschooled kids I knew enrolled in gymnastics, pottery classes, community education programs, swimming classes...all sorts of places where they were exposed to 'the cultural mosaic that our world really is'. They were out in the community volunteering and contributing while they learned.
So, I would have to say it is too bad that YOUR educational vision is so limited.
But those are parts of the real world
Posted by: pamms2
Posted on: 2005-02-12 12:11:59

The things you mention are out there. It's sad, but true. That is exactly why kids need to learn, over time, with their peers, that those things do exist and more importantly, how to deal with them. I think some of the things you mentioned may be over stated ("She's learned that if her opinion differs from a teacher's, she is always wrong.") I know, in my classroom (yep, another teacher) that is far from true. But learning how to deal with some of these realities is part of growing up. When kids do get older they will find the same issues in college and in the workplace and having dealt with them in the school environment can give them the experience that will make them better able to handle the 'office bully', office politics, sexual harassment, elitism, etc. that are, and unfortunately, will continue to be a part of real life. Ii think these things CAN be learned even if homeschooled. Whether kids are homeschooled or at a public school, parents need to be aware of these issues and take steps to help insure that their child is equipped to deal with them. The homeschool parent simply needs to be aware that the isolation mentioned before is a possible downside to homeshooling and, like many parents do, make sure their child gets the socialization they will need.