03/15 "Don't Be a Mooch!"

mooching grown children
Posted by: janice255
Posted on: 2004-10-15 22:13:15

Dear Dr. Phill,
this subject hits home. My second husband and I married in 1991. I had a 23 year old daughter and 17 year old son. He had a son one month younger than my daughter 22 and a 19 year old son. I thought grown children "no problem". How wrong I was! His sons were staying at a boarding house in a metropolian area about 50 miles from us, hoping to find work. My son married two weeks before me. He had a job and even though a high school drop-out he took the responsability seriously. I told him the girl treated him terrible, but he was soooo in love with her. My daughter went to college for two years and was working for a bank in a big office where they don't see the customers, but talk to them (one of those people you talk to when you question your credit statement. She was on her own 200 miles from us and doing well. My two stepsons were back home in three months. The older one was an alocholic and drug addict and the younger one was so so lazy. He would be up all night talking on the phone, their friends were in and out,loud cars and music; then about dawn he'd go to sleep. Their father and,I had to get up at five a.m. to go to work. We lived in a 12x65 ft. trailer. The walls were just pieces of paneling so we didn't get much sleep. Two months after that the younger one married a 17 year old girl. Her parents just got tired of her and him talking on the phone all night. I told her I would teach her how to cook and she could do the dishes. She said," I don't do dishes!" I said, " you can clean the bathroom. Everyone has to help especially since we both work. " said she, "she didn't do bathrooms." I said, "What do you do?" She said "I should have married a rich man." To make a long story story short I left after almost six years. The older one worked most of the time. The younger one was a liar, thief, and stoled many things of mine and some of his Dad's including ativan "prescription medicine" which I had to go on. Thier Dad handed the younger one money hand over fist. He would say he had did some work, like build a deck, for some one and they did'nt pay him. I finally left. He got the divorce. I wasn't about to pay for that. The Dad always come down hard on the oldest and took up for the younger one even when he knew he was lying. My point: Four years after I left the younger one was found dead in a pond near his Dad's trailer. He had been living their since his Dad had remarried 1 and 1/2 years before. The older son was living in his Grandmother's trailer with her. It was about 50 yards away. They were drinking one night. The older one was convicted of killing his brother and is serving 23 years in prison. The father never had control over his sons. He felt sorry for them because their mother had died of Lukemia when they were 11 and 14 years old. My childrens father died of lung cancer when they were 10 and 16, but I didn't feel sorry for them to that point. My son's wife was physically, verbally,and sexually (no sex) abusive to him. She had an affair and left him. we took him in for awhile, but he worked. Then almost two years my son married is oldest stepbrother's x-wife. He is now raising two stepdaughter's who love him very much. Him and his wife had a child together. Please keep telling parents of mooching grown children to kick them out Either get and keep a job or or your going to a homeless shelter. I'm changing the locks on the door! I know you believe in tough love when called for. Think of this Dad. I said I blamed him, because he didn't do "tough love". How sad for all. This has really affected his oldest ones children. They got councelling thanks to a "on hands" Mom. The oldest stepson has said that he couldn't have picked a better stepfather for his children than my son. In a way my x lost two sons at once. The children pay for their parents sins. In all fairness the older son was abusive to two wives, and wasn't working much at the end. Just drinking.
I know how you feel
Posted by: sjoiner99
Posted on: 2005-03-15 10:32:54

I have two stepsons from this marriage. One has left and living with a girlfriend. The youngest is still home, but has quit college after the first semester, free scholarship by the way, and is not working. He sleeps all day and runs the roads all night. My husband puts no restrictions on him and like your situation hands over money for gas and whatever the kid wants. The stepson begged me to borrow money for him to get a car and I did, stupidly. He promised to pay off the loan which he has not and now I am left to pay everything. We also have to pay his insurance for the car. His father insists on paying the youngest son's bills. I have about had it and am ready to leave my husband and let him deal with his kids. Also, this youngest son shoved me and my husband did not do anything about it. I feel very alone in this relationship. My husband does not have anything to do with me, no conversation, no intimacy, no nothing. It is like I am a non-person in my own home. I see no other alternative. He will not even tell me he loves me. I have gotten him out of debt and repaired his credit and now all he does is treat me like a servant. He believes that I am trying to come between him and his kids. I am not. I have tried to teach them responsibility for their actions but to no avail. We will be married 6 years this week but I know that he will not even acknowledge it. What is the point of being here?
Point
Posted by: judipie
Posted on: 2005-03-15 18:03:11

What is the point in the marriage.....soundsl like your stuck in being a marytr. say good- bye to this dead beat marriage.
Two adult sons using drugs
Posted by: kritter54
Posted on: 2004-10-16 15:02:15

Yes, I have two adult sons, living with their Dad, who mooch off anyone they can tell a lie to. Neither son works, their Dad lets them stay at the house and he even pays for their vehicle loans.

Sometimes, they have a girl live with them and for the life of me, I am afraid these boys are either going to kill themselves or someone else out on the road. One boy already has a felony possesion charge and the other one has had his drivers license taken away.

They both have the typical drug behavior and sleep all day and stay awake all night. They punch holes in the walls and are total pigs.

I don't know what to do anymore when their Dad calls me and tells me what is going on. I already know what is going on and I tell him that he has to take action. I tell him that I will support him and then I take some kind of action and turn out to be an idiot because their Dad doesn't do anything.

Don't get us wrong, we love the boys dearly. What holds their Dad back from kicking them out is that he is afraid someone will get killed and to tell you the truth, so am I.

This hurts so much.
dont have fear
Posted by: noble69
Posted on: 2004-10-18 19:43:53

the thing is that you do have to take responsibility for your 2 boys as you help them to be this way.
regardless of how you fear one or both will die you need to let them go
you show by letting them do the things they do that its ok..you forgive you take them back etc...
you need to both stand up and face what kind of environment you have created by allowing such behaviour to happen in your home
i know i probably sound harsh but the fact is you need to be aware of your own part in this situation
you let it happen.
to stop this abuse you must stop the situation ...take back the control
its a negitive situation and it feels like you dont really want to be there
i dont blame you i wouldnt appreciate it if i had to live like that also
but honey they need to go and find their own way. all they will do as long as you make it easy for them to continue is keep being this way
no way out im afraid you have to be tough and say stop i'm not willing to put up with your abuse of your fathers and my house you have no right to treat us this way!!!
you will not hurt them by doing this you will be doing them a favor by becoming adults, yes they will probably fall on their face and yes it will be hard but i ask you how many times do these boys need to be picked up, let them pick themselves up. Take the safety net away for awhile.
and take back the control to your life.
remember their emotions are their own dont take them to heart
love and blessings
Thank You Noble
Posted by: kritter54
Posted on: 2004-10-24 17:55:13

Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to my post. I know that the things you said came from your heart. Bless you.

I am aware of the kind of environment that I helped create for these boys and I do accept responsibility for my part. For that, I have done a lot of things to change.

My biggest problem is that the boys' father will not take the safety net away from them.

I have decided to just detach from the boys and their father for the time being. I make sure and call them a couple times a week to tell them that I love them and I will be there for them anytime they decide they want to get help for their drug addiction. I also try and encourage them with any healthy goals they might have.

Not much else I can do. I've been told by several treatment facilities that I can not bring the boys in unless they are willing. There is no such thing as involuntary rehabilitation anymore.

I do not have the power to change the things I can not change.

Thank you again for taking the time to care. Your reply was appreciated.

Kritter
My brother uses drugs how do I help him
Posted by: zachary89
Posted on: 2004-10-20 08:09:21

My brother also uses drugs and it is affecting the whole family. He is 40 years old, married with three children and his wife turns her haed and says he does not need help we can beat it ourselves. How do I get my mom to understand she neds to stop paying his bills and bailing him out of his problems?

She is at an age that she should not be working any more but she has no savings or money set aside to stop because all the years of paying his bills from turning the electric back on to paying the car loans she has no money to retire. If there is any advice to help her see that sometimes you need to use the old tough love method.

My brother hurts her so much he is violent and throws things and breaks windows when he gets mad I am afraid for her saftey. He says he cant afford to get the help and his wife says they can do it on his own. Now the children are being neglected, the house is always dirty and many times has no electricity or water they are many times home alone. The fighting that they tell me goes on in the house in front of them just braks my heart.

What should I do to help?
Advice
Posted by: judipie
Posted on: 2005-03-15 18:10:07

As a former substance abuse conselor I can shed some light on this situation. I have also find with my own mother who does the same thing with my nephew that they hear what they want to hear. One possibility would be to look at having your brother court committed to treatment. However, even with treatment this does not gaurentee a recovering person. Addiction breeds alot of denial and it's tough when you have to deal with people who are in denial ( it's apart of the sickness). My advice would be accept what you can and can't do for your brother. DON"T enable him. You may not be able to cure him but you don't have to help him stay sick either... like your mother is doing. Read up on addiction and Al-NON. Good luck!
Empathy 4 U
Posted by: jenwelcher
Posted on: 2005-03-15 18:28:06

Hi - I understand what you are going through. A few years ago I learned that my father was an addict and that he had been for most of my life. After I learned that I called my mother and thanked her for having the insight to remove me from that influence. When I actually had the clarity to discuss it with him I asked him about why or how this became more important then me he couldn't answer. I forgive him now, but then again I'm over 30 now and I have a little bit more perspective. But, it still hurts that he was not there for a chunk of my life and everytime I pay my student loans I cry because of the tuition he spent on drugs. I live in Canada so the rules in my province may not be the same as in your state but a call to Child Protective Services may not be a bad idea. In my province we have an "anonymity" clause. We can report possible neglect or abuse without leaving a name. That may be an avenue. Another is through an employer of theirs. Several employers have incentives to help employees through their issues. If there is an Employee Assistance Program at either of their places of Employment then they have at least a Central Referral or a place where they can give names of people contracted to provide service. If he/they say they can kick this alone - they are lying to you. They can't. The drug will become another family member that becomes more important than any of flesh and blood. Any of the choices you take may make you unpopular but at least the kids would be fine. I know it doesn't help much but at least know that someone is thinking of you.
- Good Luck!
Adult childern refuses treatment
Posted by: purley
Posted on: 2005-03-17 01:56:21

I understand right where you are at. Scared to death for your child’s life. And can not make them get help. My husband does agree with me that we can not help our daughter destroy her life. It is very hard to sit here and be scared for her and just wonder what is going to have to happen to get her to come around.

This is so hard. How do you get an adult (18) to treatment before the sunsets when she is not willing to go? We have told her she can not live here if she is using drugs, so she leaves. She hasn't had the legal trouble (yet). But she has been through jobs, thrown away her 1st 2 college semesters and broken bones. The list could go on. We know this is a crisis situation, but all we hear is that our hands are tied until she agrees to treatment. I refuse to enable and I understand it is not her, but the drugs that are talking to me. But how do I get her to treatment? When I hear Dr. Phil say if this was my child I would get her there and she would do whatever is needed, I agree. But how do I get her to agree????

Good luck with your sons.
Any suggestions on getting addicts to face they need help and agree to treatment are welcome.
BOY DOES THIS LOOK FAMILIAR!
Posted by: weirdal71
Posted on: 2004-10-16 19:06:58

I've been reading the postings regarding the topic "Don't Be a Mooch" and unfortunately have seen an example of this in our family. Back in 1998, my aunt was getting her life back together after her second husband died in 1993 when my cousin was in a car crash. From the photos I saw of the wreckage, he was lucky to be alive. Unfortunately, he was under-employed at a job that did not provide health insurance. Being her son, my aunt took my cousin in then until he "got back on his feet". That was 1998. This is 2004 and he is STILL there! My aunt is hoping to sell her house, but cannot do so until my cousin finds an apartment of his own. This situation angers me as he is 43 years old and perfectly capable of supporting himself. I realize that my aunt may read this and disown me altogether, but I hope that my cousin reads this too and realizes the stress he is putting my aunt through. It's time to MOVE OUT!
IT'S a THIN LINE..
Posted by: dapeanut
Posted on: 2004-10-16 23:01:23

Hi Dr. Phil.
my name is dionne; my boyfriend and i have been together for a little over a year.i'm 27 and he is 33. we met at a previous work place and have been together ever since.i have a 8 yr old autistic son who receives SSI. he lost his job nine months ago,and since then has made no effort to look for a job. i have lost my job about four months ago;but receiving unemployment.three people cannot survive off an income made for two. i make an effort every week to look for a job,because i can't stand to live like this. i address him about doing the same,but get the 'i need to be inspired speech',and that i need to get a job before telling him to. that doesn't seem to stop him from asking me for money so he can do his thing.he doesn't deny that he is lazy when it comes to looking for work when he does make an attempt. when we do get into dicussing me supporting him, it gets turned into 'put yourself in my shoes' territory.'i haven't been working,but i can say the same thing about you',he says. i have been brought up to stand through thick and thin in a relationship;and just because you loose your job doesn't make you a 'bad' person. more and more everytime he sticks his hand out for money, i see myself turning on him.
dump him
Posted by: shrimpety
Posted on: 2004-10-18 11:17:49

dapeanut, if you haven't married him, move on! i once dated somene just like him. if you think about it he is now living off of your son! that is dispicable. if he wanted to work he would do whatever was needed to find a job. the 'put yourself in my shoes' routine is all to familiar to me. it's made to manipulate you and makeyou feel like this is somehow your fault. it isn't! he doesn't respect you or your son. you stand by someone only if they are deserving, otherwise they call it a co-dependent relationship which is quite unhealthy. you have given him more than enough time to find a job, it's now time for him to get back to work.

I guess i should now count my blessings. i can't get my husband to not work.
What do you think about this situation
Posted by: nancyliu
Posted on: 2004-10-18 15:16:13

Hi,
I read your message, and I know someone in a situation that has some similiarity to the one you describe. She is a middle age woman, and she lost her job in February this year, and her familiy arranged and asked her to moved back in with her parents. She did so in June, but she is very sluggish in job searching. She did go to get a vocational trainning, and now that it is commpleted she is supposed to look for jobs again, but she is doing everything she can to delay it. What do you think is going on ?
time to move out
Posted by: nllowry
Posted on: 2004-10-27 15:33:24

THE LONGER THIS GOES ON THE WORSE IT WILL GET. GIVE HER A TIME FRAME, SAY 30-60 DAYS, TO GET A JOB ANY JOB AND TO MOVE OUT, AND MEAN WHAT YOU SAY. IT WON'T BE EASY ,BUT LIFE IS NOT EASY, AND YOU ARE NOT HER KEEPER.
It's the Economy Stupid
Posted by: txfemale
Posted on: 2004-10-28 14:59:20

I'm just apalled that so many people do not recognize and acknowledge that the economy is in the dumper now. It's actually worse than the depression era. These people are not lazy. I've been looking for a job for a very long time and no luck. I'm highly educated and can make a computer do anything but wash dishes and cook.

People are just so mean now that it's just unreal. Why don't we all just get together and beat on each other to relieve some of the stress we're all under.

Sheesh. I thought I was mean, but I'm Sister Mary Sunshine compared to some of these people.
Please!
Posted by: gwutah
Posted on: 2005-03-15 18:28:06

I work in a correctional facility. All inmates MUST find a job within two weeks after arrival at the work center or they are returned to the higher security of the lockup center. During the last two years, I have seen more than 90% land a job within one week. There are always jobs - it is always the jobseeker (even felons), not the economy.

By the way, your "stupid" comment is in VERY poor taste!
I agree-
Posted by: tally33
Posted on: 2005-03-15 21:48:02

Before anyone says "But you don't know what it's like.." yes, I do. I lost my job after 17 years at the local hospital. I'd worked there since I was 19. Never been on another interview, never created a resume, hadn't job hunted since 1986. It was very frustrating to reply to ads and not even get a form letter saying the position had been filled. But I found work. It took me six months, but I found it.

However, in the cases of the people on the show, they need to start SOMEwhere. My 21 year old stepdaughter has been steadily employed since she was 14-by not considering any job beneath her. She handed out samples, flipped burgers, made subs, and proved herself to be employable, simply by showing up on time, following instructions, being neat and clean, working her shifts. She now has a good job at Playtex. Jobs are out there, even if it means starting by clerking at the local 7-11, McD's or the Dollar Store. Heck, bag groceries if you have to. Any employment would be preferable to sitting at home, mooching off Mom and playing video games all day. Any employment is a step in the right direction.

Posted by: sushi1062
Posted on: 2005-03-22 09:45:47

It's true, what you are saying. Just WORK.

But some people, who are highly skilled in one area with years of experience (I'm a legal assistant with 15+ years experience), and are looking for a job.....ANY JOB, meet with a special challenge sometimes.

Places like Dollar Tree, McDonalds, the grocery store, don't want people like me. I'm overqualified. They know full well as soon as I'm offered a job in my own career field...I'm gone. Maybe even without giving notice. They don't want that. They want unskilled people who aren't "career orphans".

I agree with what you said, but it's hard being stuck in the middle. Overqualified and unemployed. And broke. It's scary. The biggest challenge is keeping the desperation (in my voice) hidden and quiet from potential employers. Trying not to say "I'll work for $5/hour if you just HIRE me." How pathetic.
Economy should be considered
Posted by: rose012
Posted on: 2005-03-15 19:15:18

I don't fully agree with the tone or the use of the word "stupid" but do fully feel the pain of the economy. In March of 2002 I was laid off of my career/job of 11 years (while I was pregnant and on STD) after off-shoring the operations I managed to India. I knew the possibility was there for my lay off and let my staff know to make good connections with other operational groups because their jobs were at risk as well as mine. I tried to do the same for myself but it was difficult because I was 7 months pregnant and on STD due to complications of the pregnancy. My company, a major telecom, did lay me off along with thousands of others. A month later my doctor had to induce labor due to my complications and my son was born a month early. He was small and had some breathing problems so I stayed home with him his first year. At the same time the company stock plummeted from $68 a share to less than $10 taking most of the value of my 401k and my management stock options with it. Because I earned the majority of our take-home pay I knew we were in trouble financially. Our marriage, already strained, was is trouble, and the blame was all on me, according to my husband. We ran-up our credit cards and cashed out my 401k at 1/10 the value it had been just the year before. When my son was a year old and in good health I went back to work as a consultant to the company where I had worked. It was a good six-month contract but then was not renewed and no permanent job resulted due to additional lay offs coupled with more off shoring. At that same time my father fell ill and went through 3 months of in/out of the hospital and died in April 2004. For a few months I did not focus on my job search and I had to ask my husband to leave due to violent behavior. I felt broken, grieving and lost in a bad marriage, financially ruined and my husband took the last of our savings to buy another house and leave me to fend on my own. I tried to refinance the house and lived on that money all the while looking for work. But the economy was such that there were few and far between jobs at the post-graduate management level I had been. I have been applying for jobs for over a year now, and had several interviews but no offer. I am still looking for a job. I've had to turn to bankruptcy just last week to stop the foreclosure on the house I have had for over 10 years. I am fearful for being able to provide for my 2-year-old son. I feel worthless that I have not been able to find a job and know that my family and husband all think I am not trying hard enough. I have even omitted some of my qualifications on my resume to try to find lesser job to get us through but that has not worked yet either. I have had to borrow from my Mother and feel so embarrassed about it especially since my Dad just passed away last year and she is not in the best financial position. My experience has been that most people around me do not understand how bad the economy is unless it has touched them directly. All that I have worked for the last 39 years is gone. My marriage is gone, my retirement is gone, my home is gone, my self-esteem is gone. I have to keep trying for my son and for myself but it is a daily struggle to even get up most days. I have about 2 months in my house then I am homeless. I have had 3 interviews the last two weeks, still no offer. Anyone who thinks the economy is not impacting hardworking people is mistaken. I am hopeful that is it getting better, it has to!