05/03 Brainwashed Brides

Me, in a cult? No Way!!!
Posted by: nomorecult
Posted on: 2005-05-02 15:47:05

You don't just wake up one morning and say to yourself, "Today, I think I'm going to join a cult. Let me interview with all the potential 'communities' & figure out which one is going to promise to give me what I'm missing from my life. I also need for this 'new community' to deliver their 'life-changing' information to me in a way that there's no question that what I'm going to be taught (programmed) is the absolute truth. The ONLY way for me to learn how is that I just need to TRUST them. Again, NOT telling me anything substantial, just to trust the process."
Well, I didn't wake up & say those words, I experienced them. I just realized this 4 days ago. Now, as all my emotions (crying) are coming out as I'm writing this, I am realizing how difficult this process of leaving this cult organization is going to be. I've formed great bonds with some people & it's difficult to say goodbye. Tonight, I am going to my regularly scheduled meeting & I am letting them know why I am leaving this "Family of Women" & this "Institute of Relationships". Thank goodness, I am not doing this alone. I have 2 other women who have seen what I now see and are standing at my side as I deliver this to the rest of the women in our "program".
This book, "Combatting Cult Mind Control" was brought to my attention this past Friday. Believe me, I went into this stating "I am very defensive about these allegations because I am extremely involved in this organization." I allowed myself to be open-minded. I read/listened to information that was being read out of this book & other factual sites such as the "Encyclopedia of Sociology". At this point, I was getting angry because I started to see what this whole "organization" was about. Everything, I mean everything that I read applied to what I have been doing within this "Family" from the very beginning up to now. Then, feelings of shame started coming because no one likes to admit that they have been dooped or taken advantage of physically, emotionally, & mentally. Especially, mentally. Brain-washed. Coercive Persuasion. Coercive Influence.
The constant pressure of "enrolling (recruiting) men & women so that they can have (the fallacy of) what you have or are striving to get". I see men & women who have been in the "program" and part of the "families" and after 5,6,7,8,9,10 years, they still have not reached their goals. "Why?" you ask- because they have been programmed (just like myself) to believe that the more they step up & volunteer (w/out pay) the more they will get out of being in this "family". The closer they will be to achieving their goals. So, again, the MORE time to spend on recruiting people to this $600 weekend relationship seminar, the better your relationships will be with you spouse, children, parents, siblings, business, friends, etc. How can NOT spending time in all of these relationships listed because you're constantly volunteering for this organizations' "higher purpose" be beneficial to any of your relationships outside this "family"? I'm very open to have further discussions about this. I will be in front of the television tomorrow afternoon watching & taping the program with the Author, Steven Hassan discussing what I have recently been made aware of. Again, I never thought that this could ever happen to me.
I'll be back tomorrow, after the show.
Sincerely,
A Lucky Woman
my prayers are with you
Posted by: ldm125
Posted on: 2005-05-03 09:00:30

I hope you stay strong and get out of your situation. I will pray that God will give you strength and wisdom. Good luck and God bless.
Amazing
Posted by: kelleee88
Posted on: 2005-05-03 18:52:10

It's amazing that these girls are so brainwashed. It makes you wonder what parents can do to protect children from these things.


Their not brainwashed
Posted by: knowfacts
Posted on: 2005-05-04 13:35:24

Their not brainwashed, their looking for the most attention they can get.
They aren't?
Posted by: blushn24
Posted on: 2005-05-04 16:07:18

Why do you think that? when you are taught from birth that this is the way things are?
This was all they had known. Do you not keep the beliefs that were past on by your parents? Remember these girl are barely adults.
I know a little of what they went through. My parents were very neglectful and abusive to me, my disability, & my 5 siblings. Until I met my husband and moved out I was scared into submission. I was threatened if I talked to family sevices I'd never see my 5 siblings again. I know it is hard for some one who never lived in these conditions to understand, but for a child threats are very powerful. I no longer speak to my parents. My 3 youngest siblings live with our aunt because I rose above my past and called Family services for the kids I'd taken care of since I was 12. It was hard to go against everything that was put in my head.My family is still in the middle of a leagal battle & fighting to be adopted after 5 yrs. (But that's a whole new big issue)It takes alot for people like us to stand up for ourselves. I still have never been "on my own" Look outside of your own life you may just learn something! I didn't
know I could be this strong!
EMOTIONAL BLACKMAIL - FEAR OBLIGATION AND GUILT
Posted by: anon_slc
Posted on: 2005-05-07 10:54:50

Some books which provide great insight of "disorders" found among people at church and often within our own families:

Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You by Susan Forward and Donna Frazier

Why Is It Always About You?: The Seven Deadly Sins of Narcissism by Sandy Hotchkiss and James Masterson

Stop Walking on Eggshells; Taking Your Life Back When Someone You Care about Has Borderline Personality Disorder by Paul T. Mason, Randi Kreger

Behind the Masks: Personality Disorders in the Church by C. Marvin Pate, Sheryl L. Pate OR Behind the Masks: Personality Disorders in Religious Behavior by Wayne E. Oates

High Conflict Personalities: Understanding and Resolving Their Costly (Legal) Disputes by William A. Eddy

Dr. Oates gives an overview of various "masks" manifested in various Personality Disorders then provides descriptions of how these masks appear in our congregations.
Brainwashed
Posted by: lfantoni
Posted on: 2005-05-04 16:34:21

These girls were brainwashed, and they were raised one way and it is extremely hard for them to living on the outside. I send my love and prayers with them and I hope they are able to learn to live outside of their former community.

Posted by: grace835
Posted on: 2005-05-04 18:14:48

I don't know what your definition of brainwashed is, but if you believe that you are condemned to hell if you leave "the family", that sounds pretty brainwashed to me.
Definitions
Posted by: profholl
Posted on: 2005-05-20 17:23:23

I am a professor or psychology, and as far as I know there is not a conclusive definition for brainwashing. In my opinion, it has to do with full exposure to unorthodox ideals and nothing else, usually for your entire life. So if you never know your way of life is considered "abusive" by many, to you it may not be without an exposure to a different lifestyle. So the definition is going to change from person to person. This may help explain how these individuals have such altered logic, or strange behavior - it is all they know. Thus viewing them from mainstream society is not going to offer a clear picture of what is going on in their world. Plato wrote an allegory called "The Cave" that may have theoretical application in cult or brainwashing type cases, and may offer insight to those trying to understand the phenomena.
They are brainwashed
Posted by: kimmylove
Posted on: 2005-05-04 19:42:09

You are so wrong about these girls. You must be in the cult to make a comment like this. Keep opinions like that to yourself. They are looking for help. Girls like this need some attention so they can see what else is out there and to see how important life really is.
rrrrrrrrr!!!!
Posted by: wawest24
Posted on: 2005-05-24 17:22:45

waht makes me mad about the episode of dr.p thats on now is that its pretty much hinting that mormons are polygamists!! that is totally not true they used to be a long long time ago but they are 100% not now! we are soo sick of people thinking we polgamists. if someone is a polygamist there is no way they are a member of my chyrch, they are excommunicated if they are!
Way oversensitive
Posted by: danlead
Posted on: 2005-05-24 20:29:13

You obviously don't have a clue. There was no connection made between the main Mormon Church and the subject that the show was addressing. In fact, in the first show, Dr Phil made a statement that there was no connection with the Mormon religion and the people that they were talking about. Pay attention. And why are you so sensitive to this?
wayoversensitive
Posted by: gram18
Posted on: 2005-05-25 09:36:23

It must be that he is brainwashed to think he knows it all
we arent polygamists!!!!!
Posted by: wawest24
Posted on: 2005-05-24 17:27:43

what makes me mad about the episode of dr.p thats on now is that its pretty much hinting that mormons are polygamists!! that is totally not true they used to be a long long time ago but they are 100% not now! we are soo sick of people thinking we are polgamists. if someone is a polygamist there is no way they are a member of my church, they are excommunicated if they are!
they're
Posted by: mo_no_mo
Posted on: 2005-05-04 20:46:18

THEY'RE not brainwashed. And yes they are.
Shameful
Posted by: wulfman
Posted on: 2005-05-05 20:11:46

It took a couple of reads for me to be certain of what you meant by your posting.
It would have been a bit easier if you had the courage of your convictions and had simply come out directly and said that you believed these two innocents where condemned to burn in hell.
You must very much believe that you know the will of the Infinite to say something like this with such certainty and such belief that you may speak for God in His place and as the instrument of his judgement. This seems very much like vanity to me.
If two innocents are held in such contempt by our Lord, I can't imagine what would await someone so proud.
In every faith of which I am aware, humility is prized as a virtue, and the innocent are blessed, not punished.

Why do I refer to these young girls as innocent? Not because they do not have knowledge that evil walks upon the Earth, but because they could have done nothing, were told to do nothing, were trained to do nothing, trained even that the rape of children by perverse, weak, and cowardly men was a normal thing... and yet they knew that this was not of God, and refused to accept the easy path.

They chose the narrow path of virtue, hardship, sacrific and pain to answer the purpose He put before them. Yes, God makes himself known to women, and has higher purposes for them than baby ranching, and the stroking of fragile male egos, too timid to acknowledge their own inevitable mortality, and that they themselves are subject to judgement.

I very much hope you are wrong about the nature of hell. I couldn't wish that upon anyone. I can wish upon those men, a temporary version however. Its not a burning hell though, and that should comfort you. It is a hell made of concrete and steel, bright orange jumpsuits, and large angry men who simply cannot suffer a pig to live within their gates.
hell
Posted by: lisalzada
Posted on: 2005-05-07 10:54:50

I have always believed that if men and women hated to see anyone condemned to an eternity of burning in hell, how much more an infinitely loving God must hate it. God loves so much more than we do. If we who are evil know how to give gifts....
Matthew 7..?
Posted by: wulfman
Posted on: 2005-05-08 14:30:59

sorta gives one the impression that hell is as individual a place for each of us as Heaven...

That we receive in kind what we seek, that God Blesses everyone, and is loathe to condemn those of us who stumble or struggle.

He especially will not condemn those who take the narrow path to Him... even if their way is uncertain.

I think that judgement, is a state in which an individual abandons Grace by surrendering their search for Him, and that judgement is imposed upon oneself with the knowledge that they could have made the hard choice they knew to be right, but didn't, even when that knowledge urged them to action. In essense, that Hell is reserved for those who carry an internal burden for a deliberate choice to ignore right, not for those who struggle with doubt while making an active effort to figure out what that right thing might be. I believe that God holds a special place for those who undertake the search for right in the face of doubt, and that those people are especially blessed, because they are the examples that encourage others to make the same hard choice for themselves.

I have the belief myself that God is too much mystified, and his intent is made into an unfillable expectation in doctrine, When Father is more like Dad... who wants us to grow up happy, stong, and contented in the knowledge that He loves us. We place absolutes and impediments in our own path that make Him seem to be an overwhelming, unreachable and demanding Parent, when he is just asking that we try to treat ourselves, and each other well, and to be loving people ourselves.

For me... Hell is the knowledge that I had treated myself or someone else badly, and the unwillingness to admit to them, and myself, that I had done so. A failure of personal responsibility and an absence of the will to improve and grow into the better person my Dad wants me to be.

If anyone involved in this topic has shown personal responsibility and willingness to grow, I can't think of better examples than Fawn and Fawn. I'm not certain that in the same situation, my own actions would even approach the excellence and devotion to rightness they exemplify. They accepted personal responsibility for their own actions even in the face of hostility, and indoctrination that would have them doubt themselves. I do not think I would measure up to the strength and just purpose these girls have displayed. Most people have a goodness about them, some have the strength to pursue right, even when many around them tell them they are wrong, very very few people have the strength to maintain personal responsibility for right acts and actively pursue right, when the people they care about most abandon them and fail to support them. Thanks Heaven for their brother. He may be their anchor and safe harbor while they consolidate their strength and firm up their resolve.
One is always in the woodwork
Posted by: auntidi
Posted on: 2005-05-07 15:43:29

This is a serious issue. If you believe in this form of mind controlling, abusive child raring - then keep your distance, as these are lives that have been stolen. These girls have to be socialised all over again, and they are terrified.

If you are seeking to be controversial, this discussion is not the place to push your agenda - as this is a serious issue.

I speak from outside the United States where this subject is of great concern. Freedom, often is confused and overated, because how free we are is often influenced by the society in which we live. But one thing I believe, is that all have freedom of mind, until it is manipulated, and stolen, which is what has happened to these two girls, and is still happening in the community they escaped from.
Isolation is in fact the main element of brainwash
Posted by: jamie9831
Posted on: 2005-05-04 21:13:45

Isolation is in fact the main element of brainwashing... these members in colorado city are isolated and secluded. THey were told they would burn in hel* if they leave. They are not allowed education past the 7th(?) grade-the women are nothing but baby factories in an already overly populated country- for God's sake are these people living in the 1800's? It's like slavery all over again. Someone needs to step in and help these women and children before this turns into something far worse...